[DDI-users] [DDI-SRG] ISSUE 602
Samuel Spencer
theodore.therone at gmail.com
Sun Jun 2 09:09:21 EDT 2013
Wendy,
Your proposed rational for attatching the language at the content level
actually does fit a defined use case.
First of all, if I as a developer were to rend this question for an English
speaker, the german tagged section of the question should presumably not be
displayed.
Secondly, what happens if instead of kolsch we ask the reader
interpretation of the Czech word "pilsner". Now the problem is, Pilsner is
a Czech word for a specific beer, but now, that is an english word for the
same thing. XML:lang cannot be repeated and the content cannot be space
delimited so is Pilsner in this context a Czech word or an English word?
See also, entrepreneur (French), veranda (Indian), sushi (Japanese).
< d:QuestionText><d:LiteralText><r:Content xml:lang="en">What is your
understanding of the Czech word </r:Content><r:Content
xml:lang="cz">"pilsner"?</r:Content></d:LiteralText><d:QuestionText>
Consider also the German word "tagfraggensicht"
< d:QuestionText><d:LiteralText><r:Content xml:lang="en">What is your
understanding of the German word </r:Content><r:Content
xml:lang="??">"tagfraggensicht"?</r:Content></d:LiteralText><d:QuestionText>
In this example, the word "tagfraggensicht" isn't german, in fact it isn't
a word. Perhaps the intent of the question is to examine lying? Under tyour
proposed solution I would have to have a null xml:lang tag as the string
content has no language.
As an alternative, I would suggest in the context of the question the lang
tag identifies the language of the intended reader, so instead:
< d:QuestionText><d:LiteralText><r:Content xml:lang="en">What is your
understanding of the German word "agfraggensicht"?</r:
Content></d:LiteralText><d:QuestionText>
However, as you have pointed out, the Content tag needs a Text tag so it
becomes:
< d:QuestionText><d:LiteralText><r:Content xml:lang="en"><r:Text>What is
your
understanding of the German word "agfraggensicht"?</r:Text></r:
Content></d:LiteralText><d:QuestionText>
Which is an extra layer of detail than in the original schema! The Text
components for questions in DDI3.1 were a little verbose and could use
simplification, but they worked and were very descriptive. This not only
adds additional elements, it invalidates vast amounts of existing content,
and makes development against the schema harder.
I vote that the bug is acknowledged as is, and the QuestionText element is
rolled back to the 3.1 schema definition.
Cheers,
Sam.
--- Specificity is the soul of all good communication ---
--- When the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box ---
Find out more about me: http://about.me/legostormtroopr
On 2 June 2013 20:48, Wendy Thomas <wlt at umn.edu> wrote:
> Minor update....note that in example below "r:Content" should be
> d:Text of type d:TextType.
>
> d:TextType uses the extension base of r:Content and adds an attribute
> that allows for the recognition of leading and trailing spaces.
>
> My error...I should have looked at the schema closer and not relyed on
> my memory...which was close but clearly not firing on all cylinders. I
> have edited the note in Mantis to relay corrected information. Also
> added the missing end tags and start tag for the second literal text
> segment in the second example. Clearly had a fun and exhausting time
> at IASSIST!
>
> Wendy
>
> On Sun, Jun 2, 2013 at 12:28 PM, Wendy Thomas <wlt at umn.edu> wrote:
> > I am sending this out as it seems to be a general interest question
> > and I'd like broader feedback. There is a specific question regarding
> > the resolution of this issue stated within the Note below. The brief
> > answer to the issue as stated is that you can declare language in a
> > QuestionItem and other DynamicText, its just that the language and
> > translation tags lie within the Content tag (which is the language
> > specific string in a StructuredStringType). The question is whether or
> > not we need a top level "primary language" attribute to clarify when
> > the content of a single language example contains foreign text. See
> > details below.
> >
> > Please make your comments known as soon as possible. -- Wendy
> >
> >
> >
> > Summary 0000602: QuestionText no longer has xml:lang. Cannot specify
> > the language of questions.
> >
> > Description: The QuestionText element no longer has xml:lang, so it is
> > impossible to specify the language of question text, or to specify
> > questions with translations.
> >
> > Apologies if this has already been resolved as part of some other
> > issue. Or am I missing something here? This seems quite serious.
> >
> > Proposed Solution: Restore xml:lang on QuestionText. This would be
> > consistent with the documentation for QuestionText, which states "Note
> > that when using QuestionText, the full QuestionText must be repeated
> > for multi-language versions of the content
> >
> > NOTE 1654
> > In all cases of DynamicText we decided that the object itself must
> > repeat to clearly provide a language alternative. All XxxxText objects
> > of DynamicTextType reside in a parent complex object that is the one
> > carrying the ID. The documentation states that the XxxxText object is
> > repeatable for the purpose of expressing multiple languages and that
> > the assumption is that the content of each repetition within the
> > parent object is equivilent content in an alternate language.
> >
> > LiteralText is no longer a StructuredStringType but contains the
> > repeatable object Content which is the language specific subelement of
> > a StructuredString.
> >
> >
> > So in a QuestionItem:
> >
> > < d:QuestionText><d:LiteralText><r:Content xml:lang="de">Kommen Sie
> > mit?</r:Content></d:LiteralText><d:QuestionText>
> > < d:QuestionText><d:LiteralText><r:Content xml:lang="en">Do you want
> > to come with?</r:Content></d:LiteralText><d:QuestionText>
> >
> > This was done because a question could have multiple language
> > segements and because the dynamic text may fall in different locations
> > in various language strings. We felt it was confusing to mix multiple
> > language strings into a single QuestionText under such conditions and
> > could even be impossible to parse out.
> >
> > So at the moment it is a matter of digging further into the
> > DynamicText content to determine language. The question we should
> > address is the following:
> >
> > Do we need to provide information on the primary language of the
> > DynamicText content at the parent object level?
> >
> > Pro: Saves digging into question and also clarifies the primary
> > language for mult-language content within a questions, e.g. the
> > following:
> >
> > < d:QuestionText><d:LiteralText><r:Content xml:lang="en">What is your
> > understanding of the German word </r:Content><r:Content
> > xml:lang="de">"Kölsch"?</r:Content></d:LiteralText><d:QuestionText>
> >
> > Con: What is the rule for language identification conflicts between
> > primary language information at DynamicText level and Content level?
> > For example I could be asking a question in one language for a
> > questionnaire that was intended for use in another language group. In
> > short resolving conflicts is not a one answer fits all situations.
> >
> > Note that "Content" has the full set of language and translation
> > information found in any international or structred string. Also note
> > that for ALL other string types that support multple languages the
> > language and translation information is contained in the sub-element.
> > The object that is of InternationalStringType or StructuredStringType
> > is a means of binding multiple language equivilencies together.
> >
> > --
> > Wendy L. Thomas Phone: +1 612.624.4389
> > Data Access Core Director Fax: +1 612.626.8375
> > Minnesota Population Center Email: wlt at umn.edu
> > University of Minnesota
> > 50 Willey Hall
> > 225 19th Avenue South
> > Minneapolis, MN 55455
>
>
>
> --
> Wendy L. Thomas Phone: +1 612.624.4389
> Data Access Core Director Fax: +1 612.626.8375
> Minnesota Population Center Email: wlt at umn.edu
> University of Minnesota
> 50 Willey Hall
> 225 19th Avenue South
> Minneapolis, MN 55455
>
> _______________________________________________
> DDI-SRG mailing list
> DDI-SRG at icpsr.umich.edu
> http://lists.icpsr.umich.edu/mailman/listinfo/ddi-srg
>
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