[DDI-users] DDI-users Digest, Vol 30, Issue 5
Wendy Thomas
wlt at pop.umn.edu
Tue Jul 24 12:49:07 EDT 2007
Freddy,
Absolutely that is the intent. We knew that to do it right would take both
time and the correct content people. Rather than do a partial job of it,
we tried to identify all places that would need controlled vocabularies
and suggested that a workgoup address these in a ssytematic manner,
working out not only controlled vocabularies, but also a process for
updating and supporting local vocabularies. I don't know what stage this
is at, but you may want to Mary Vardigan know if you are interested in
this area.
Wendy
On Tue, 24 Jul 2007, Fredy Kuhn wrote:
>
> Wendy,
>
> Yes, this other question regarding vocabularies (cv) is a rather complex
> one ... My impression was that DDI.v3 defines the needed infrastructure
> (vocabularytype), but leaves the field open to use/apply it, especially
> for the method related fields discussed below. This is not meant as
> criticism, but I think it needs to be defined/added one day.
>
> I compare DDI.v2 and .v3 regarding such cv's (just to get familiar with
> v3), but abandoned it, due to lack of time. I think one thing is to
> allow a cv for various elements, the other thing to define them, also
> regarding their status (private lists, public, public extensible, etc.)
>
> I'm interested to learn what's going in this workgroup you mentioned, if
> any.
>
> Best regards
> Freddy
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Wendy Thomas" <wlt at pop.umn.edu>
> To: "Data Documentation Initiative Users Group" <ddi-users at icpsr.umich.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 4:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [DDI-users] DDI-users Digest, Vol 30, Issue 5
>
>
>
> Freddy,
>
> One more item way down at the bottom of your original email you asked
> about the following: How do elements with controlled vocabularies in 3.0,
> e.g. data collection mode, get marked up? How do you specify the
> controlled vocabulary?
>
> My understanding is that we added a provision for local definitions of
> controlled vocabularies, but I will need to get Arofan or J to provide an
> explanation of how this works. If necessary I will file a bug on this to
> get it into the field level documentation. Many locations for controlled
> vocabularies have been left as simple strings. We did not feel like we
> could provide accurate and complete lists for many of these. I believe
> there is a workgroup being considered on the topic of Controlled
> Vocabularies. We tried to identify where they were needed, but did not
> provide all of the content for them.
>
> Wendy
>
> On Mon, 23 Jul 2007, Fredy Kuhn wrote:
>
>>
>> Thanks Wendy,
>>
>> I see. Concerning your proposal for a comprehensive review of the examples: I wouldn't go so far. Of course a search for misleading examples is useful, but I found them in general appropriate + illustrative to/for what can be done with the elements in v2. - And I won't keep you off from messing about with v3...
>>
>> You can add us to the groups acting on DDI 2.1, and i'm in fact completing a program interface using it, and bind those examples into my application, as a helper for people who have to mark up studies.
>>
>> You might wonder about this, as DDI-3 is on the way. Right. But this is our productive environment, including a path to Nesstar ... Well I hope to join the october training to become familiar with implementation + usage of v3.
>>
>>
>> Freddy
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Wendy Thomas" <wlt at pop.umn.edu>
>> To: "Data Documentation Initiative Users Group" <ddi-users at icpsr.umich.edu>
>> Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 5:11 PM
>> Subject: Re: [DDI-users] DDI-users Digest, Vol 30, Issue 5
>>
>>
>> Freddy,
>>
>> Ah I understand. This is an artifact of the old means of maintaining the
>> tag library (everything was separate and everything was done by hand).
>> Apparently the addition of these at the nation etc levels did not generate
>> new examples in the Tag library which was a separate document. The
>> definition was pulled from the standard description of <concept> but the
>> examples were origianlly location specific. When we switched to an
>> automated process the examples were parsed out and all examples show at
>> any use of the element. Since there were no examples at these points, none
>> were pulled.
>>
>> What we probably need is a comprehensive review (click by click) to
>> identify were there are missing examples or disjointed descriptions. Mary
>> Vardigan is currently out of town, but I'll send this to her and the
>> Expert committee chairs and see if they can organize a small group of
>> people to review and update this. I know there are a number of groups in
>> Canada and elsewhere that are just starting to work with DDI 2.1 and are
>> very reliant on the Tag Library.
>>
>> Wendy
>> chair, Technical Implementation Committee
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 23 Jul 2007, Fredy Kuhn wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> thanks to Mark Wendy Sanda for caring about it.
>>>
>>>> From what i see, the 'tree structure' doc is OK, but the 'whole library' page needs to be completed, as well the description: if I click on a <concept> link in the tree, say near <nation>, I get examples for <var> and <nCubeGrp>, a bit confusing.
>>>
>>>
>>> P.S. If you deal with the 'whole library': Could you have an eye on the header links ('Schema outline', etc) as well all attribute links (ID,xml:lang,source). I think the links are somewhat odd, at least I had to modify them in my local copy.
>>>
>>>
>>> Best regards, thank you
>>> Freddy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Wendy Thomas" <wlt at pop.umn.edu>
>>> To: "Data Documentation Initiative Users Group" <ddi-users at icpsr.umich.edu>
>>> Cc: <mdiggory at mit.edu>
>>> Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 4:17 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [DDI-users] DDI-users Digest, Vol 30, Issue 5
>>>
>>>
>>> Sanda,
>>>
>>> Thanks for checking into that. Will the tree be updated? I don't remember
>>> if that is a machine or human generated item. If you're swamped I'd be
>>> happy to do this for you.
>>>
>>> Wendy
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, 23 Jul 2007, Sanda Ionescu wrote:
>>>
>>>> Mark,
>>>>
>>>> When we work with V 1/2 we typically consult the tree structure for the
>>>> tags' presence, hierarchy, sequence, etc.
>>>> Whenever <text> and <concept> were added, whoever did it forgot to add
>>>> them to the tree structure (that would have been a necessary step - to
>>>> update the tree structure!).
>>>> So we never knew they existed, and that's why we may have asked you to
>>>> remove them from the schema (the tree structure derived from the schema
>>>> did not match the tree structure derived from the DTD, and we assumed
>>>> the latter was correct).
>>>> That was a while ago and I do not remember how we talked about this,
>>>> etc. Actually, I did not even remember that you had removed them from
>>>> the schema until I saw the message below.
>>>> Anyway, in the meantime I have checked, these are valid fields, as
>>>> stated in the DTD. So if you would like to reinstate them in the schema,
>>>> that would be nice.
>>>> We are definitely NOT changing the DTD right now. Taking them out would
>>>> be an invalidating change, and of course there are other reasons (V 2.1
>>>> needs to remain absolutely stable while we're messing about with V 3.0)
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Sanda.
>>>>
>>>> Sanda Ionescu
>>>> ICPSR
>>>> University of Michigan
>>>> P.O. Box 1248
>>>> Ann Arbor, MI 48106
>>>>
>>>> Phone, Fax: 734-615-7890
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: ddi-users-bounces at icpsr.umich.edu
>>>> [mailto:ddi-users-bounces at icpsr.umich.edu] On Behalf Of
>>>> ddi-users-request at icpsr.umich.edu
>>>> Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2007 12:00 PM
>>>> To: ddi-users at icpsr.umich.edu
>>>> Subject: DDI-users Digest, Vol 30, Issue 5
>>>>
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>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Re: DDI v2-1: elements TXT and CONCEPT (Mark Diggory)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 1
>>>> Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 10:46:04 -0400
>>>> From: Mark Diggory <mdiggory at MIT.EDU>
>>>> Subject: Re: [DDI-users] DDI v2-1: elements TXT and CONCEPT
>>>> To: Data Documentation Initiative Users Group
>>>> <ddi-users at icpsr.umich.edu>
>>>> Message-ID: <4EFA97EB-F8CF-413D-B19E-C8FE56D68B45 at mit.edu>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>>>>
>>>> This appears to be a change that Matt Richardson and Sandra Ionescu has
>>>> put into the schema (see revision 1.4 in the list.)
>>>>
>>>> http://ddi-alliance.cvs.sourceforge.net/ddi-alliance/ddi/w3c/
>>>> Version2-1.xsd?view=log
>>>>
>>>> Sanda and Matt, can you comment on this change in November 2005 which
>>>> appears to deviate from the DTD? I have a email archive that from that
>>>> time period I've reviewed and not been able to determine if there was
>>>> discussion concerning it? Was there consideration if this is an error
>>>> in the DTD technical Implementation of the Specification as well? Or was
>>>> this even an appropriate change to have made in the w3c Schema
>>>> implementation?
>>>>
>>>> -Mark
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 12, 2007, at 2:49 PM, Wendy Thomas wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> For DDI 2.1 the cannonical version is the DTD. I will ask the guys
>>>>> handling this on the SRG to look into the problem and get back to the
>>>>> list. (they may be doing it already :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Wendy
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 12 Jul 2007, Fredy Kuhn wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have a problem with the usage of sub element pairs 'txt' -
>>>>>> 'concept' in DDI 2-1:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The web pages 'Tree Structure' (*) and 'Whole Library' (**) display
>>>>>> in DDI section 2 several of these pairs; example:
>>>>>> <dataKind> 2.2.3.10.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In schema 2-1, and according to Sourceforge history (***), these
>>>>>> sub-elements were removed from study description elements, see
>>>>>> revision 1.4:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --- QUOTE ---
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The <txt> - <concept> pair illegally appears under <nation>,
>>>>>> <geogCover>, <geogUnit>, <anlyUnit>, <universe>, <dataKind>,
>>>>>> <timeMeth>, <sampProc>, <collMode>, <resInstru> in Study Desc., also
>>>>>> under <universe> 4.1.5 ... ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> !!!----- <txt> and <concept> are VALID FIELDS under <varGrp>
>>>>>> (4.1.2 and 4.1.3) and nCubeGrp (4.2.2 and 4.2.3) --------- !!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --- QUOTE END ---
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thus, the TXT and CONCEPT tags are valid in DTD2.1, but not in
>>>>>> schema2-1. Should we use them or not?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Further more, by removing the sub-element <concept> from e.g.
>>>>>> <datakind> or <sampProc>, how to markup the usage of a controlled
>>>>>> vocabulary?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (*) Tree structure:
>>>>>> http://www.ddialliance.org/DDI/dtd/version2-1-tree.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (**) Whole library:
>>>>>> http://www.ddialliance.org/DDI/dtd/version2-1-all.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (***) Sourceforge DTD v2.1 (see revision 1.4):
>>>>>> http://ddi-alliance.cvs.sourceforge.net/ddi-alliance/ddi/w3c/
>>>>>> Version2-1.xsd?view=log
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BTW: Looking at DDI-3, I'm asking me how elements for which we use a
>>>>>> controlled vocabulary (CV), e.g. 'data collection mode', should be
>>>>>> marked up, i.e. how to specify the CV. Could one of the 'experts'
>>>>>> give me a hint? I'm not yet too familiar with DDI-3.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best regards
>>>>>> freddy
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> DDI-users mailing list
>>>>>> DDI-users at icpsr.umich.edu
>>>>>> http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/mailman/listinfo/ddi-users
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Wendy L. Thomas Phone: +1 612.624.4389
>>>>> Data Access Core Director Fax: +1 612.626.8375
>>>>> Minnesota Population Center Email: wlt at pop.umn.edu
>>>>> University of Minnesota
>>>>> 50 Willey Hall
>>>>> 225 19th Avenue South
>>>>> Minneapolis, MN 55455
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> DDI-users mailing list
>>>>> DDI-users at icpsr.umich.edu
>>>>> http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/mailman/listinfo/ddi-users
>>>>
>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>> Mark R. Diggory - DSpace Systems Manager MIT Libraries, Systems and
>>>> Technology Services Massachusetts Institute of Technology
>>>> Office: E25-131
>>>> Phone: (617) 253-1096
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> DDI-users mailing list
>>>> DDI-users at icpsr.umich.edu
>>>> http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/mailman/listinfo/ddi-users
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> End of DDI-users Digest, Vol 30, Issue 5
>>>> ****************************************
>>>>
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>>>
>>> Wendy L. Thomas Phone: +1 612.624.4389
>>> Data Access Core Director Fax: +1 612.626.8375
>>> Minnesota Population Center Email: wlt at pop.umn.edu
>>> University of Minnesota
>>> 50 Willey Hall
>>> 225 19th Avenue South
>>> Minneapolis, MN 55455
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> DDI-users mailing list
>>> DDI-users at icpsr.umich.edu
>>> http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/mailman/listinfo/ddi-users
>>>
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>>
>> Wendy L. Thomas Phone: +1 612.624.4389
>> Data Access Core Director Fax: +1 612.626.8375
>> Minnesota Population Center Email: wlt at pop.umn.edu
>> University of Minnesota
>> 50 Willey Hall
>> 225 19th Avenue South
>> Minneapolis, MN 55455
>> _______________________________________________
>> DDI-users mailing list
>> DDI-users at icpsr.umich.edu
>> http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/mailman/listinfo/ddi-users
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> DDI-users mailing list
>> DDI-users at icpsr.umich.edu
>> http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/mailman/listinfo/ddi-users
>>
>
> Wendy L. Thomas Phone: +1 612.624.4389
> Data Access Core Director Fax: +1 612.626.8375
> Minnesota Population Center Email: wlt at pop.umn.edu
> University of Minnesota
> 50 Willey Hall
> 225 19th Avenue South
> Minneapolis, MN 55455
> _______________________________________________
> DDI-users mailing list
> DDI-users at icpsr.umich.edu
> http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/mailman/listinfo/ddi-users
>
> _______________________________________________
> DDI-users mailing list
> DDI-users at icpsr.umich.edu
> http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/mailman/listinfo/ddi-users
>
Wendy L. Thomas Phone: +1 612.624.4389
Data Access Core Director Fax: +1 612.626.8375
Minnesota Population Center Email: wlt at pop.umn.edu
University of Minnesota
50 Willey Hall
225 19th Avenue South
Minneapolis, MN 55455
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