[DDI-users] DDI-users Digest, Vol 30, Issue 5

Fredy Kuhn fredy.kuhn at sidos.unine.ch
Tue Jul 24 11:51:05 EDT 2007


Wendy,

Yes, this other question regarding vocabularies (cv) is a rather complex one ... My impression was that DDI.v3 defines the needed infrastructure (vocabularytype), but leaves the field open to use/apply it, especially for the method related fields discussed below. This is not meant as criticism, but I think it needs to be defined/added one day.

I compare DDI.v2 and .v3 regarding such cv's (just to get familiar with v3), but abandoned it, due to lack of time. I think one thing is to allow a cv for various elements, the other thing to define them, also regarding their status (private lists, public, public extensible, etc.)

I'm interested to learn what's going in this workgroup you mentioned, if any.

Best regards
Freddy


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Wendy Thomas" <wlt at pop.umn.edu>
To: "Data Documentation Initiative Users Group" <ddi-users at icpsr.umich.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 4:04 PM
Subject: Re: [DDI-users] DDI-users Digest, Vol 30, Issue 5



Freddy,

One more item way down at the bottom of your original email you asked 
about the following: How do elements with controlled vocabularies in 3.0, 
e.g. data collection mode, get marked up? How do you specify the 
controlled vocabulary?

My understanding is that we added a provision for local definitions of 
controlled vocabularies, but I will need to get Arofan or J to provide an 
explanation of how this works. If necessary I will file a bug on this to 
get it into the field level documentation. Many locations for controlled 
vocabularies have been left as simple strings. We did not feel like we 
could provide accurate and complete lists for many of these. I believe 
there is a workgroup being considered on the topic of Controlled 
Vocabularies. We tried to identify where they were needed, but did not 
provide all of the content for them.

Wendy

On Mon, 23 Jul 2007, Fredy Kuhn wrote:

>
> Thanks Wendy,
>
> I see. Concerning your proposal for a comprehensive review of the examples: I wouldn't go so far. Of course a search for misleading examples is useful, but I found them in general appropriate + illustrative to/for what can be done with the elements in v2. - And I won't keep you off from messing about with v3...
>
> You can add us to the groups acting on DDI 2.1, and i'm in fact completing a program interface using it, and bind those examples into my application, as a helper for people who have to mark up studies.
>
> You might wonder about this, as DDI-3 is on the way. Right. But this is our productive environment, including a path to Nesstar ... Well I hope to join the october training to become familiar with implementation + usage of v3.
>
>
> Freddy
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Wendy Thomas" <wlt at pop.umn.edu>
> To: "Data Documentation Initiative Users Group" <ddi-users at icpsr.umich.edu>
> Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 5:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [DDI-users] DDI-users Digest, Vol 30, Issue 5
>
>
> Freddy,
>
> Ah I understand. This is an artifact of the old means of maintaining the
> tag library (everything was separate and everything was done by hand).
> Apparently the addition of these at the nation etc levels did not generate
> new examples in the Tag library which was a separate document. The
> definition was pulled from the standard description of <concept> but the
> examples were origianlly location specific. When we switched to an
> automated process the examples were parsed out and all examples show at
> any use of the element. Since there were no examples at these points, none
> were pulled.
>
> What we probably need is a comprehensive review (click by click) to
> identify were there are missing examples or disjointed descriptions. Mary
> Vardigan is currently out of town, but I'll send this to her and the
> Expert committee chairs and see if they can organize a small group of
> people to review and update this. I know there are a number of groups in
> Canada and elsewhere that are just starting to work with DDI 2.1 and are
> very reliant on the Tag Library.
>
> Wendy
> chair, Technical Implementation Committee
>
>
> On Mon, 23 Jul 2007, Fredy Kuhn wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> thanks to Mark Wendy Sanda for caring about it.
>>
>>> From what i see, the 'tree structure' doc is OK, but the 'whole library' page needs to be completed, as well the description: if I click on a <concept> link in the tree, say near <nation>, I get examples for <var> and <nCubeGrp>, a bit confusing.
>>
>>
>> P.S. If you deal with the 'whole library': Could you have an eye on the header links ('Schema outline', etc) as well all attribute links (ID,xml:lang,source). I think the links are somewhat odd, at least I had to modify them in my local copy.
>>
>>
>> Best regards, thank you
>> Freddy
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Wendy Thomas" <wlt at pop.umn.edu>
>> To: "Data Documentation Initiative Users Group" <ddi-users at icpsr.umich.edu>
>> Cc: <mdiggory at mit.edu>
>> Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 4:17 PM
>> Subject: Re: [DDI-users] DDI-users Digest, Vol 30, Issue 5
>>
>>
>> Sanda,
>>
>> Thanks for checking into that. Will the tree be updated? I don't remember
>> if that is a machine or human generated item. If you're swamped I'd be
>> happy to do this for you.
>>
>> Wendy
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 23 Jul 2007, Sanda Ionescu wrote:
>>
>>> Mark,
>>>
>>> When we work with V 1/2 we typically consult the tree structure for the
>>> tags' presence, hierarchy, sequence, etc.
>>> Whenever <text> and <concept> were added, whoever did it forgot to add
>>> them to the tree structure (that would have been a necessary step - to
>>> update the tree structure!).
>>> So we never knew they existed, and that's why we may have asked you to
>>> remove them from the schema (the tree structure derived from the schema
>>> did not match the tree structure derived from the DTD, and we assumed
>>> the latter was correct).
>>> That was a while ago and I do not remember how we talked about this,
>>> etc. Actually, I did not even remember that you had removed them from
>>> the schema until I saw the message below.
>>> Anyway, in the meantime I have checked, these are valid fields, as
>>> stated in the DTD. So if you would like to reinstate them in the schema,
>>> that would be nice.
>>> We are definitely NOT changing the DTD right now. Taking them out would
>>> be an invalidating change, and of course there are other reasons (V 2.1
>>> needs to remain absolutely stable while we're messing about with V 3.0)
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Sanda.
>>>
>>> Sanda Ionescu
>>> ICPSR
>>> University of Michigan
>>> P.O. Box 1248
>>> Ann Arbor, MI 48106
>>>
>>> Phone, Fax: 734-615-7890
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: ddi-users-bounces at icpsr.umich.edu
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>>> ddi-users-request at icpsr.umich.edu
>>> Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2007 12:00 PM
>>> To: ddi-users at icpsr.umich.edu
>>> Subject: DDI-users Digest, Vol 30, Issue 5
>>>
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>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>>   1. Re: DDI v2-1: elements TXT and CONCEPT (Mark Diggory)
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 10:46:04 -0400
>>> From: Mark Diggory <mdiggory at MIT.EDU>
>>> Subject: Re: [DDI-users] DDI v2-1: elements TXT and CONCEPT
>>> To: Data Documentation Initiative Users Group
>>> <ddi-users at icpsr.umich.edu>
>>> Message-ID: <4EFA97EB-F8CF-413D-B19E-C8FE56D68B45 at mit.edu>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>>>
>>> This appears to be a change that Matt Richardson and Sandra Ionescu has
>>> put into the schema (see revision 1.4 in the list.)
>>>
>>> http://ddi-alliance.cvs.sourceforge.net/ddi-alliance/ddi/w3c/
>>> Version2-1.xsd?view=log
>>>
>>> Sanda and Matt, can you comment on this change in November 2005 which
>>> appears to deviate from the DTD?  I have a email archive that from that
>>> time period I've reviewed and not been able to determine if there was
>>> discussion concerning it?  Was there consideration if this is an error
>>> in the DTD technical Implementation of the Specification as well? Or was
>>> this even an appropriate change to have made in the w3c Schema
>>> implementation?
>>>
>>> -Mark
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jul 12, 2007, at 2:49 PM, Wendy Thomas wrote:
>>>
>>>> For DDI 2.1 the cannonical version is the DTD. I will ask the guys
>>>> handling this on the SRG to look into the problem and get back to the
>>>> list. (they may be doing it already :)
>>>>
>>>> Wendy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 12 Jul 2007, Fredy Kuhn wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a problem with the usage of sub element pairs 'txt' -
>>>>> 'concept' in DDI 2-1:
>>>>>
>>>>> The web pages 'Tree Structure' (*) and 'Whole Library' (**) display
>>>>> in DDI section 2 several of these pairs; example:
>>>>> <dataKind> 2.2.3.10.
>>>>>
>>>>> In schema 2-1, and according to Sourceforge history (***), these
>>>>> sub-elements were removed from study description elements, see
>>>>> revision 1.4:
>>>>>
>>>>> --- QUOTE ---
>>>>>
>>>>> The <txt> - <concept> pair illegally appears under <nation>,
>>>>> <geogCover>, <geogUnit>, <anlyUnit>, <universe>, <dataKind>,
>>>>> <timeMeth>, <sampProc>, <collMode>, <resInstru> in Study Desc., also
>>>>> under <universe> 4.1.5 ... ...
>>>>>
>>>>> !!!----- <txt> and <concept> are VALID FIELDS under <varGrp>
>>>>> (4.1.2 and 4.1.3) and nCubeGrp (4.2.2 and 4.2.3) --------- !!!
>>>>>
>>>>> --- QUOTE END ---
>>>>>
>>>>> Thus, the TXT and CONCEPT tags are valid in DTD2.1, but not in
>>>>> schema2-1. Should we use them or not?
>>>>>
>>>>> Further more, by removing the sub-element <concept> from e.g.
>>>>> <datakind> or <sampProc>, how to markup the usage of a controlled
>>>>> vocabulary?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> (*) Tree structure:
>>>>> http://www.ddialliance.org/DDI/dtd/version2-1-tree.html
>>>>>
>>>>> (**) Whole library:
>>>>> http://www.ddialliance.org/DDI/dtd/version2-1-all.html
>>>>>
>>>>> (***) Sourceforge DTD v2.1 (see revision 1.4):
>>>>> http://ddi-alliance.cvs.sourceforge.net/ddi-alliance/ddi/w3c/
>>>>> Version2-1.xsd?view=log
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> BTW: Looking at DDI-3, I'm asking me how elements for which we use a
>>>>> controlled vocabulary (CV), e.g. 'data collection mode', should be
>>>>> marked up, i.e. how to specify the CV. Could one of the 'experts'
>>>>> give me a hint? I'm not yet too familiar with DDI-3.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards
>>>>> freddy
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> DDI-users mailing list
>>>>> DDI-users at icpsr.umich.edu
>>>>> http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/mailman/listinfo/ddi-users
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Wendy L. Thomas                          Phone: +1 612.624.4389
>>>> Data Access Core Director Fax:   +1 612.626.8375
>>>> Minnesota Population Center              Email: wlt at pop.umn.edu
>>>> University of Minnesota
>>>> 50 Willey Hall
>>>> 225 19th Avenue South
>>>> Minneapolis, MN 55455
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> DDI-users mailing list
>>>> DDI-users at icpsr.umich.edu
>>>> http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/mailman/listinfo/ddi-users
>>>
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>> Mark R. Diggory - DSpace Systems Manager MIT Libraries, Systems and
>>> Technology Services Massachusetts Institute of Technology
>>> Office: E25-131
>>> Phone: (617) 253-1096
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>> End of DDI-users Digest, Vol 30, Issue 5
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>>
>> Wendy L. Thomas                          Phone: +1 612.624.4389
>> Data Access Core Director Fax:   +1 612.626.8375
>> Minnesota Population Center              Email: wlt at pop.umn.edu
>> University of Minnesota
>> 50 Willey Hall
>> 225 19th Avenue South
>> Minneapolis, MN 55455
>> _______________________________________________
>> DDI-users mailing list
>> DDI-users at icpsr.umich.edu
>> http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/mailman/listinfo/ddi-users
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> DDI-users mailing list
>> DDI-users at icpsr.umich.edu
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>>
>
> Wendy L. Thomas                          Phone: +1 612.624.4389
> Data Access Core Director Fax:   +1 612.626.8375
> Minnesota Population Center              Email: wlt at pop.umn.edu
> University of Minnesota
> 50 Willey Hall
> 225 19th Avenue South
> Minneapolis, MN 55455
> _______________________________________________
> DDI-users mailing list
> DDI-users at icpsr.umich.edu
> http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/mailman/listinfo/ddi-users
>
> _______________________________________________
> DDI-users mailing list
> DDI-users at icpsr.umich.edu
> http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/mailman/listinfo/ddi-users
>

Wendy L. Thomas                          Phone: +1 612.624.4389
Data Access Core Director Fax:   +1 612.626.8375
Minnesota Population Center              Email: wlt at pop.umn.edu
University of Minnesota
50 Willey Hall
225 19th Avenue South
Minneapolis, MN 55455
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