[DDI-users] DDI-users Digest, Vol 30, Issue 5

Reto Hadorn reto.hadorn at sidos.unine.ch
Tue Jul 24 04:23:14 EDT 2007 



Hallo Fredy,


Das ist ein schön intensives Gespräch! Bringt ein 
bisschen Klarheit, obwohl der Bezug zu den CV in 
Attributen damit nicht geklärt ist.

A propos: was meinst Du mit "messing about with 
v3"? Frag mal Stefan, was 'mess' heisst...


Ein schöner Tag!

Reto



At 23.07.2007, you wrote:

>Thanks Wendy,
>
>I see. Concerning your proposal for a 
>comprehensive review of the examples: I wouldn't 
>go so far. Of course a search for misleading 
>examples is useful, but I found them in general 
>appropriate + illustrative to/for what can be 
>done with the elements in v2. - And I won't keep 
>you off from messing about with v3...
>
>You can add us to the groups acting on DDI 2.1, 
>and i'm in fact completing a program interface 
>using it, and bind those examples into my 
>application, as a helper for people who have to mark up studies.
>
>You might wonder about this, as DDI-3 is on the 
>way. Right. But this is our productive 
>environment, including a path to Nesstar ... 
>Well I hope to join the october training to 
>become familiar with implementation + usage of v3.
>
>
>Freddy
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Wendy Thomas" <wlt at pop.umn.edu>
>To: "Data Documentation Initiative Users Group" <ddi-users at icpsr.umich.edu>
>Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 5:11 PM
>Subject: Re: [DDI-users] DDI-users Digest, Vol 30, Issue 5
>
>
>Freddy,
>
>Ah I understand. This is an artifact of the old means of maintaining the
>tag library (everything was separate and everything was done by hand).
>Apparently the addition of these at the nation etc levels did not generate
>new examples in the Tag library which was a separate document. The
>definition was pulled from the standard description of <concept> but the
>examples were origianlly location specific. When we switched to an
>automated process the examples were parsed out and all examples show at
>any use of the element. Since there were no examples at these points, none
>were pulled.
>
>What we probably need is a comprehensive review (click by click) to
>identify were there are missing examples or disjointed descriptions. Mary
>Vardigan is currently out of town, but I'll send this to her and the
>Expert committee chairs and see if they can organize a small group of
>people to review and update this. I know there are a number of groups in
>Canada and elsewhere that are just starting to work with DDI 2.1 and are
>very reliant on the Tag Library.
>
>Wendy
>chair, Technical Implementation Committee
>
>
>On Mon, 23 Jul 2007, Fredy Kuhn wrote:
>
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > thanks to Mark Wendy Sanda for caring about it.
> >
> >> From what i see, the 'tree structure' doc is 
> OK, but the 'whole library' page needs to be 
> completed, as well the description: if I click 
> on a <concept> link in the tree, say near 
> <nation>, I get examples for <var> and <nCubeGrp>, a bit confusing.
> >
> >
> > P.S. If you deal with the 'whole library': 
> Could you have an eye on the header links 
> ('Schema outline', etc) as well all attribute 
> links (ID,xml:lang,source). I think the links 
> are somewhat odd, at least I had to modify them in my local copy.
> >
> >
> > Best regards, thank you
> > Freddy
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Wendy Thomas" <wlt at pop.umn.edu>
> > To: "Data Documentation Initiative Users Group" <ddi-users at icpsr.umich.edu>
> > Cc: <mdiggory at mit.edu>
> > Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 4:17 PM
> > Subject: Re: [DDI-users] DDI-users Digest, Vol 30, Issue 5
> >
> >
> > Sanda,
> >
> > Thanks for checking into that. Will the tree be updated? I don't remember
> > if that is a machine or human generated item. If you're swamped I'd be
> > happy to do this for you.
> >
> > Wendy
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 23 Jul 2007, Sanda Ionescu wrote:
> >
> >> Mark,
> >>
> >> When we work with V 1/2 we typically consult the tree structure for the
> >> tags' presence, hierarchy, sequence, etc.
> >> Whenever <text> and <concept> were added, whoever did it forgot to add
> >> them to the tree structure (that would have been a necessary step - to
> >> update the tree structure!).
> >> So we never knew they existed, and that's why we may have asked you to
> >> remove them from the schema (the tree structure derived from the schema
> >> did not match the tree structure derived from the DTD, and we assumed
> >> the latter was correct).
> >> That was a while ago and I do not remember how we talked about this,
> >> etc. Actually, I did not even remember that you had removed them from
> >> the schema until I saw the message below.
> >> Anyway, in the meantime I have checked, these are valid fields, as
> >> stated in the DTD. So if you would like to reinstate them in the schema,
> >> that would be nice.
> >> We are definitely NOT changing the DTD right now. Taking them out would
> >> be an invalidating change, and of course there are other reasons (V 2.1
> >> needs to remain absolutely stable while we're messing about with V 3.0)
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Sanda.
> >>
> >> Sanda Ionescu
> >> ICPSR
> >> University of Michigan
> >> P.O. Box 1248
> >> Ann Arbor, MI 48106
> >>
> >> Phone, Fax: 734-615-7890
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: ddi-users-bounces at icpsr.umich.edu
> >> [mailto:ddi-users-bounces at icpsr.umich.edu] On Behalf Of
> >> ddi-users-request at icpsr.umich.edu
> >> Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2007 12:00 PM
> >> To: ddi-users at icpsr.umich.edu
> >> Subject: DDI-users Digest, Vol 30, Issue 5
> >>
> >> Send DDI-users mailing list submissions to
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> >>
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> >> "Re: Contents of DDI-users digest..."
> >>
> >>
> >> Today's Topics:
> >>
> >>   1. Re: DDI v2-1: elements TXT and CONCEPT (Mark Diggory)
> >>
> >>
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 1
> >> Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 10:46:04 -0400
> >> From: Mark Diggory <mdiggory at MIT.EDU>
> >> Subject: Re: [DDI-users] DDI v2-1: elements TXT and CONCEPT
> >> To: Data Documentation Initiative Users Group
> >> <ddi-users at icpsr.umich.edu>
> >> Message-ID: <4EFA97EB-F8CF-413D-B19E-C8FE56D68B45 at mit.edu>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
> >>
> >> This appears to be a change that Matt Richardson and Sandra Ionescu has
> >> put into the schema (see revision 1.4 in the list.)
> >>
> >> http://ddi-alliance.cvs.sourceforge.net/ddi-alliance/ddi/w3c/
> >> Version2-1.xsd?view=log
> >>
> >> Sanda and Matt, can you comment on this change in November 2005 which
> >> appears to deviate from the DTD?  I have a email archive that from that
> >> time period I've reviewed and not been able to determine if there was
> >> discussion concerning it?  Was there consideration if this is an error
> >> in the DTD technical Implementation of the Specification as well? Or was
> >> this even an appropriate change to have made in the w3c Schema
> >> implementation?
> >>
> >> -Mark
> >>
> >>
> >> On Jul 12, 2007, at 2:49 PM, Wendy Thomas wrote:
> >>
> >>> For DDI 2.1 the cannonical version is the DTD. I will ask the guys
> >>> handling this on the SRG to look into the problem and get back to the
> >>> list. (they may be doing it already :)
> >>>
> >>> Wendy
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, 12 Jul 2007, Fredy Kuhn wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Hi all,
> >>>>
> >>>> I have a problem with the usage of sub element pairs 'txt' -
> >>>> 'concept' in DDI 2-1:
> >>>>
> >>>> The web pages 'Tree Structure' (*) and 'Whole Library' (**) display
> >>>> in DDI section 2 several of these pairs; example:
> >>>> <dataKind> 2.2.3.10.
> >>>>
> >>>> In schema 2-1, and according to Sourceforge history (***), these
> >>>> sub-elements were removed from study description elements, see
> >>>> revision 1.4:
> >>>>
> >>>> --- QUOTE ---
> >>>>
> >>>> The <txt> - <concept> pair illegally appears under <nation>,
> >>>> <geogCover>, <geogUnit>, <anlyUnit>, <universe>, <dataKind>,
> >>>> <timeMeth>, <sampProc>, <collMode>, <resInstru> in Study Desc., also
> >>>> under <universe> 4.1.5 ... ...
> >>>>
> >>>> !!!----- <txt> and <concept> are VALID FIELDS under <varGrp>
> >>>> (4.1.2 and 4.1.3) and nCubeGrp (4.2.2 and 4.2.3) --------- !!!
> >>>>
> >>>> --- QUOTE END ---
> >>>>
> >>>> Thus, the TXT and CONCEPT tags are valid in DTD2.1, but not in
> >>>> schema2-1. Should we use them or not?
> >>>>
> >>>> Further more, by removing the sub-element <concept> from e.g.
> >>>> <datakind> or <sampProc>, how to markup the usage of a controlled
> >>>> vocabulary?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> (*) Tree structure:
> >>>> http://www.ddialliance.org/DDI/dtd/version2-1-tree.html
> >>>>
> >>>> (**) Whole library:
> >>>> http://www.ddialliance.org/DDI/dtd/version2-1-all.html
> >>>>
> >>>> (***) Sourceforge DTD v2.1 (see revision 1.4):
> >>>> http://ddi-alliance.cvs.sourceforge.net/ddi-alliance/ddi/w3c/
> >>>> Version2-1.xsd?view=log
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> BTW: Looking at DDI-3, I'm asking me how elements for which we use a
> >>>> controlled vocabulary (CV), e.g. 'data collection mode', should be
> >>>> marked up, i.e. how to specify the CV. Could one of the 'experts'
> >>>> give me a hint? I'm not yet too familiar with DDI-3.
> >>>>
> >>>> Best regards
> >>>> freddy
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> DDI-users mailing list
> >>>> DDI-users at icpsr.umich.edu
> >>>> http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/mailman/listinfo/ddi-users
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Wendy L. Thomas                          Phone: +1 612.624.4389
> >>> Data Access Core Director Fax:   +1 612.626.8375
> >>> Minnesota Population Center              Email: wlt at pop.umn.edu
> >>> University of Minnesota
> >>> 50 Willey Hall
> >>> 225 19th Avenue South
> >>> Minneapolis, MN 55455
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> DDI-users mailing list
> >>> DDI-users at icpsr.umich.edu
> >>> http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/mailman/listinfo/ddi-users
> >>
> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >> Mark R. Diggory - DSpace Systems Manager MIT Libraries, Systems and
> >> Technology Services Massachusetts Institute of Technology
> >> Office: E25-131
> >> Phone: (617) 253-1096
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> DDI-users mailing list
> >> DDI-users at icpsr.umich.edu
> >> http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/mailman/listinfo/ddi-users
> >>
> >>
> >> End of DDI-users Digest, Vol 30, Issue 5
> >> ****************************************
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> DDI-users mailing list
> >> DDI-users at icpsr.umich.edu
> >> http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/mailman/listinfo/ddi-users
> >>
> >
> > Wendy L. Thomas                          Phone: +1 612.624.4389
> > Data Access Core Director Fax:   +1 612.626.8375
> > Minnesota Population Center              Email: wlt at pop.umn.edu
> > University of Minnesota
> > 50 Willey Hall
> > 225 19th Avenue South
> > Minneapolis, MN 55455
> > _______________________________________________
> > DDI-users mailing list
> > DDI-users at icpsr.umich.edu
> > http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/mailman/listinfo/ddi-users
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > DDI-users mailing list
> > DDI-users at icpsr.umich.edu
> > http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/mailman/listinfo/ddi-users
> >
>
>Wendy L. Thomas                          Phone: +1 612.624.4389
>Data Access Core Director Fax:   +1 612.626.8375
>Minnesota Population Center              Email: wlt at pop.umn.edu
>University of Minnesota
>50 Willey Hall
>225 19th Avenue South
>Minneapolis, MN 55455
>_______________________________________________
>DDI-users mailing list
>DDI-users at icpsr.umich.edu
>http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/mailman/listinfo/ddi-users
>
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