[DDI-users] Fw: DDI-users Digest, Vol 30, Issue 5

Wendy Thomas wlt at pop.umn.edu
Mon Jul 23 11:43:51 EDT 2007 

Freddy,

I think this was more in terms of trying to clarify why it was being 
removed. Unfortunately, as Sanda stated, the original tree diagram was 
used as a reference for the removal rather than looking into the DTD. 
Since the two were not in sync the elements were removed in error. 
Fortunately the process has been updated so that the tree diagram and 
docuemntation are generated from the DTD electronically.

As for the emphatic nature of the update note...we'll be more conscious in 
the future that these are being read out of the context of the moment and 
try to keep them simple and factual. I think in this case it was a snip 
from an email that was part of a back and forth exchange as people were 
trying to debug the process of automatically converting the DTD to a 
schema structure. We all tend to get a bit emphatic as we nail things 
down.

Wendy

On Mon, 23 Jul 2007, Fredy Kuhn wrote:

>
> Just an additional note:
>
> The remark in the sourceforge log about the removal of the 
> <txt><concept> tags sounds nevertheless somewhat conceptional (which 
> irritated me). Or was this remark due to the fact that you favored as 
> source the schema instead of the DTD?
>
> !!!----- <txt> and <concept> are VALID FIELDS under <varGrp>
> (4.1.2 and 4.1.3) and nCubeGrp (4.2.2 and 4.2.3) --------- !!!
>
> Freddy
>
> ---
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> thanks to Mark Wendy Sanda for caring about it.
>
>> From what i see, the 'tree structure' doc is OK, but the 'whole library' page needs to be completed, as well the description: if I click on a <concept> link in the tree, say near <nation>, I get examples for <var> and <nCubeGrp>, a bit confusing.
>
>
> P.S. If you deal with the 'whole library': Could you have an eye on the header links ('Schema outline', etc) as well all attribute links (ID,xml:lang,source). I think the links are somewhat odd, at least I had to modify them in my local copy.
>
>
> Best regards, thank you
> Freddy
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Wendy Thomas" <wlt at pop.umn.edu>
> To: "Data Documentation Initiative Users Group" <ddi-users at icpsr.umich.edu>
> Cc: <mdiggory at mit.edu>
> Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 4:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [DDI-users] DDI-users Digest, Vol 30, Issue 5
>
>
> Sanda,
>
> Thanks for checking into that. Will the tree be updated? I don't remember
> if that is a machine or human generated item. If you're swamped I'd be
> happy to do this for you.
>
> Wendy
>
>
> On Mon, 23 Jul 2007, Sanda Ionescu wrote:
>
>> Mark,
>>
>> When we work with V 1/2 we typically consult the tree structure for the
>> tags' presence, hierarchy, sequence, etc.
>> Whenever <text> and <concept> were added, whoever did it forgot to add
>> them to the tree structure (that would have been a necessary step - to
>> update the tree structure!).
>> So we never knew they existed, and that's why we may have asked you to
>> remove them from the schema (the tree structure derived from the schema
>> did not match the tree structure derived from the DTD, and we assumed
>> the latter was correct).
>> That was a while ago and I do not remember how we talked about this,
>> etc. Actually, I did not even remember that you had removed them from
>> the schema until I saw the message below.
>> Anyway, in the meantime I have checked, these are valid fields, as
>> stated in the DTD. So if you would like to reinstate them in the schema,
>> that would be nice.
>> We are definitely NOT changing the DTD right now. Taking them out would
>> be an invalidating change, and of course there are other reasons (V 2.1
>> needs to remain absolutely stable while we're messing about with V 3.0)
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Sanda.
>>
>> Sanda Ionescu
>> ICPSR
>> University of Michigan
>> P.O. Box 1248
>> Ann Arbor, MI 48106
>>
>> Phone, Fax: 734-615-7890
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ddi-users-bounces at icpsr.umich.edu
>> [mailto:ddi-users-bounces at icpsr.umich.edu] On Behalf Of
>> ddi-users-request at icpsr.umich.edu
>> Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2007 12:00 PM
>> To: ddi-users at icpsr.umich.edu
>> Subject: DDI-users Digest, Vol 30, Issue 5
>>
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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>   1. Re: DDI v2-1: elements TXT and CONCEPT (Mark Diggory)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 10:46:04 -0400
>> From: Mark Diggory <mdiggory at MIT.EDU>
>> Subject: Re: [DDI-users] DDI v2-1: elements TXT and CONCEPT
>> To: Data Documentation Initiative Users Group
>> <ddi-users at icpsr.umich.edu>
>> Message-ID: <4EFA97EB-F8CF-413D-B19E-C8FE56D68B45 at mit.edu>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>>
>> This appears to be a change that Matt Richardson and Sandra Ionescu has
>> put into the schema (see revision 1.4 in the list.)
>>
>> http://ddi-alliance.cvs.sourceforge.net/ddi-alliance/ddi/w3c/
>> Version2-1.xsd?view=log
>>
>> Sanda and Matt, can you comment on this change in November 2005 which
>> appears to deviate from the DTD?  I have a email archive that from that
>> time period I've reviewed and not been able to determine if there was
>> discussion concerning it?  Was there consideration if this is an error
>> in the DTD technical Implementation of the Specification as well? Or was
>> this even an appropriate change to have made in the w3c Schema
>> implementation?
>>
>> -Mark
>>
>>
>> On Jul 12, 2007, at 2:49 PM, Wendy Thomas wrote:
>>
>>> For DDI 2.1 the cannonical version is the DTD. I will ask the guys
>>> handling this on the SRG to look into the problem and get back to the
>>> list. (they may be doing it already :)
>>>
>>> Wendy
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, 12 Jul 2007, Fredy Kuhn wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> I have a problem with the usage of sub element pairs 'txt' -
>>>> 'concept' in DDI 2-1:
>>>>
>>>> The web pages 'Tree Structure' (*) and 'Whole Library' (**) display
>>>> in DDI section 2 several of these pairs; example:
>>>> <dataKind> 2.2.3.10.
>>>>
>>>> In schema 2-1, and according to Sourceforge history (***), these
>>>> sub-elements were removed from study description elements, see
>>>> revision 1.4:
>>>>
>>>> --- QUOTE ---
>>>>
>>>> The <txt> - <concept> pair illegally appears under <nation>,
>>>> <geogCover>, <geogUnit>, <anlyUnit>, <universe>, <dataKind>,
>>>> <timeMeth>, <sampProc>, <collMode>, <resInstru> in Study Desc., also
>>>> under <universe> 4.1.5 ... ...
>>>>
>>>> !!!----- <txt> and <concept> are VALID FIELDS under <varGrp>
>>>> (4.1.2 and 4.1.3) and nCubeGrp (4.2.2 and 4.2.3) --------- !!!
>>>>
>>>> --- QUOTE END ---
>>>>
>>>> Thus, the TXT and CONCEPT tags are valid in DTD2.1, but not in
>>>> schema2-1. Should we use them or not?
>>>>
>>>> Further more, by removing the sub-element <concept> from e.g.
>>>> <datakind> or <sampProc>, how to markup the usage of a controlled
>>>> vocabulary?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> (*) Tree structure:
>>>> http://www.ddialliance.org/DDI/dtd/version2-1-tree.html
>>>>
>>>> (**) Whole library:
>>>> http://www.ddialliance.org/DDI/dtd/version2-1-all.html
>>>>
>>>> (***) Sourceforge DTD v2.1 (see revision 1.4):
>>>> http://ddi-alliance.cvs.sourceforge.net/ddi-alliance/ddi/w3c/
>>>> Version2-1.xsd?view=log
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> BTW: Looking at DDI-3, I'm asking me how elements for which we use a
>>>> controlled vocabulary (CV), e.g. 'data collection mode', should be
>>>> marked up, i.e. how to specify the CV. Could one of the 'experts'
>>>> give me a hint? I'm not yet too familiar with DDI-3.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards
>>>> freddy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> DDI-users mailing list
>>>> DDI-users at icpsr.umich.edu
>>>> http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/mailman/listinfo/ddi-users
>>>>
>>>
>>> Wendy L. Thomas                          Phone: +1 612.624.4389
>>> Data Access Core Director Fax:   +1 612.626.8375
>>> Minnesota Population Center              Email: wlt at pop.umn.edu
>>> University of Minnesota
>>> 50 Willey Hall
>>> 225 19th Avenue South
>>> Minneapolis, MN 55455
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> DDI-users mailing list
>>> DDI-users at icpsr.umich.edu
>>> http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/mailman/listinfo/ddi-users
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> Mark R. Diggory - DSpace Systems Manager MIT Libraries, Systems and
>> Technology Services Massachusetts Institute of Technology
>> Office: E25-131
>> Phone: (617) 253-1096
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
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>>
>> End of DDI-users Digest, Vol 30, Issue 5
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>
> Wendy L. Thomas                          Phone: +1 612.624.4389
> Data Access Core Director Fax:   +1 612.626.8375
> Minnesota Population Center              Email: wlt at pop.umn.edu
> University of Minnesota
> 50 Willey Hall
> 225 19th Avenue South
> Minneapolis, MN 55455
> _______________________________________________
> DDI-users mailing list
> DDI-users at icpsr.umich.edu
> http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/mailman/listinfo/ddi-users
>
> _______________________________________________
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>

Wendy L. Thomas                          Phone: +1 612.624.4389
Data Access Core Director		 Fax:   +1 612.626.8375
Minnesota Population Center              Email: wlt at pop.umn.edu
University of Minnesota
50 Willey Hall
225 19th Avenue South
Minneapolis, MN 55455

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