[DDI-users] Re: DDI-users digest, Vol 1 #57

Tina Savla · ddi-users-request@icpsr.umich.edu

 is a solution, but not the best.

Regards
Freddy Kuhn, SIDOS
www.sidos.ch

----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Sanda Ionescu" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 9:11 PM
Subject: [DDI-users] Passing line breaks to DDI-XML

> The DDI Committee has addressed the need to preserve text formatting =
in DDI.
> Recently it has approved the introduction of a number of formatting =
tags=20
> within all elements that contain PCDATA.
> At ICPSR we are now in the process of enabling these tags in a =
development=20
> version of the DTD, which will be posted
> on the DDI site within a few days. We will announce the posting =
through=20
> this list, and will certainly welcome any feedback on the new tags and =

> other minor changes.
> So please stay tuned!
>=20
> Sanda Ionescu
> Research Associate
> Inter-university Consortium for Political and Social Research (ICPSR)
> 311 Maynard St.
> Ann Arbor, MI 48104-2211
> Phone: (734) 998-9895
> Fax (734) 998-9889
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> DDI-users mailing list
> DDI-users@icpsr.umich.edu
> http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/mailman/listinfo/ddi-users

From ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu  Thu Apr 17 19:59:09 2003
From: ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu (Fredy Kuhn)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 20:59:09 +0200
Subject: [DDI-users] Passing line breaks to DDI-XML, continued
References: <002c01c30505$0dcba0d0$0200a8c0@m1>
Message-ID: <001101c30513$6e4c7d90$0200a8c0@m1>

Hi again,

just to reply to myself: I introduced in a XML file some html elements: =

, and uploaded it into Nesstar =
with Publisher2. Works fine: In http://nesstar.sidos.ch, see the study:

- Swiss electoral studies 1999
-- abstract
-- Other study description -> Related ...

Note also that this might due to how Nesstar formats the output. Looking =
at the XML with my own simple XSL, you see the html tags as they are:
http://www.static.sidos.ch/idc_test.asp?dest=3Didc/000305.XML

So nevertheless, i'd appreciate it to have some more information about =
using formatting tags in DDI-XML.

Regards
Freddy

----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Fredy Kuhn" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 7:16 PM
Subject: [DDI-users] Passing line breaks to DDI-XML, continued

Hi Sanda, and all the others,

I grabbed out the e-mail below, and wanted to ask about the state of the =
art concerning formatting tags. Are they available? Can anybody show me =
a XML example how to use them?

The only search result about 'formatting tags' is a report as of =
june-15,2002:
http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/DDI/ORG/min6-15-02.html

To provoke at bit: You might agree that the 'series information' in:
http://www.icpsr.umich.edu:8080/DDI/SAMPLES/07728.xml
looks terrible, and nobody reads this. Some of the tag contents should =
rather appear as formatted texts, and might have lot of information, =
like abstract.  is a solution, but not the best.

Regards
Freddy Kuhn, SIDOS
www.sidos.ch

----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Sanda Ionescu" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 9:11 PM
Subject: [DDI-users] Passing line breaks to DDI-XML

> The DDI Committee has addressed the need to preserve text formatting =
in DDI.
> Recently it has approved the introduction of a number of formatting =
tags=20
> within all elements that contain PCDATA.
> At ICPSR we are now in the process of enabling these tags in a =
development=20
> version of the DTD, which will be posted
> on the DDI site within a few days. We will announce the posting =
through=20
> this list, and will certainly welcome any feedback on the new tags and =

> other minor changes.
> So please stay tuned!
>=20
> Sanda Ionescu
> Research Associate
> Inter-university Consortium for Political and Social Research (ICPSR)
> 311 Maynard St.
> Ann Arbor, MI 48104-2211
> Phone: (734) 998-9895
> Fax (734) 998-9889
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> DDI-users mailing list
> DDI-users@icpsr.umich.edu
> http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/mailman/listinfo/ddi-users
_______________________________________________
DDI-users mailing list
DDI-users@icpsr.umich.edu
http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/mailman/listinfo/ddi-users

From ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu  Thu Apr 17 22:32:49 2003
From: ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu (Ryan Johnson)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 14:32:49 -0700
Subject: [DDI-users] Software question
In-Reply-To: <001101c30513$6e4c7d90$0200a8c0@m1>
References: <002c01c30505$0dcba0d0$0200a8c0@m1>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20030417143013.01d812f0@mail.wsu.edu>

At Washington State we are beginning a project to put 260 odd market 
research data sets into DDI and make them available on the web.  As a part 
of this process we are currently considering whether to use Nesstar or 
SDA.  I would appreciate any comments on either or both products that 
anyone would care to share.

Please respond off the list.

Thanks

Ryan Johnson
Social Science Reference -
Electronic Resources Librarian
Holland/New Library
Washington State University
509-335-2693
509-335-1889 FAX

From ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu  Fri Apr 18 14:25:02 2003
From: ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu (I-Lin Kuo)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 09:25:02 -0400
Subject: [DDI-users] Software question
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20030417143013.01d812f0@mail.wsu.edu>
References: <001101c30513$6e4c7d90$0200a8c0@m1>
 <002c01c30505$0dcba0d0$0200a8c0@m1>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030418092443.009fe3c0@icpsr.umich.edu>

Please provide your email for off-list response.

At 02:32 PM 4/17/03 -0700, you wrote:
>At Washington State we are beginning a project to put 260 odd market 
>research data sets into DDI and make them available on the web.  As a part 
>of this process we are currently considering whether to use Nesstar or 
>SDA.  I would appreciate any comments on either or both products that 
>anyone would care to share.
>
>Please respond off the list.
>
>Thanks
>
>Ryan Johnson
>Social Science Reference -
>Electronic Resources Librarian
>Holland/New Library
>Washington State University
>509-335-2693
>509-335-1889 FAX
>
>_______________________________________________
>DDI-users mailing list
>DDI-users@icpsr.umich.edu
>http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/mailman/listinfo/ddi-users

From ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu  Fri Apr 18 15:30:08 2003
From: ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu (I-Lin Kuo)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 10:30:08 -0400
Subject: [DDI-users] Passing line breaks to DDI-XML, continued
In-Reply-To: <001101c30513$6e4c7d90$0200a8c0@m1>
References: <002c01c30505$0dcba0d0$0200a8c0@m1>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030418100027.00a0e480@icpsr.umich.edu>

There's a philosophical division within the DDI about using formatting tags 
within
the DDI. Some feel that XML should be about content only. Others, like you,
are concerned with the readability of elements containing long text.

Part of the difficulty of the problem is getting people to understand the 
difference
between HTML problems and XML problems. The lack of paragraphs and returns
and tabs in the DDI display is an HTML problem -- this only occurs if 
you're using
a browser to look at your XML. If you use a text editor, there isn't an 
issue. On the
other hand, the lack of  and  elements is an XML "problem."

As a compromise, a very limited set of formatting tags from the TEI 
standard have been
adopted (see the development version 1.3 of the DTD at
http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/DDI/CODEBOOK/codebook1-3.html) -- div, emph,
head, hi, itm, list, label. These are the only allowed formatting tags 
within the
the DDI. The use of the html elements is not allowed and will cause your
document not to validate against the DTD. I would guess that Publisher2
displays your html markup correctly because it is not validating against
the 1.3 development version of the DTD.

Thus, at the current date, I would recommend that you use only the DTD-allowed
formatting tags.

On the other hand, I'd like to state my opinion that the implementation 
choice of
choosing TEI formatting tags over their HTML counterparts is an incorrect one.
Content tagged with TEI cannot be displayed as is within a browser. This
forces an extra conversion step to convert the TEI tags when displaying in the
browser, the most common display method. HTML is a well-known standard
while TEI is only well-known within a small (but important) academic niche.
This increases the already considerable learning curve/implementation barrier
to using the DDI for both processors and programmers (albeit only slightly).
It is my hope that the DDI  will reconsider the choice of TEI over HTML 
tags....

At 08:59 PM 4/17/03 +0200, you wrote:
>Hi again,
>
>just to reply to myself: I introduced in a XML file some html elements: 
>

, and uploaded it into Nesstar with 
>Publisher2. Works fine: In http://nesstar.sidos.ch, see the study:
>
>- Swiss electoral studies 1999
>-- abstract
>-- Other study description -> Related ...
>
>Note also that this might due to how Nesstar formats the output. Looking 
>at the XML with my own simple XSL, you see the html tags as they are:
>http://www.static.sidos.ch/idc_test.asp?dest=idc/000305.XML
>
>
>So nevertheless, i'd appreciate it to have some more information about 
>using formatting tags in DDI-XML.
>
>Regards
>Freddy
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Fredy Kuhn" 
>To: 
>Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 7:16 PM
>Subject: [DDI-users] Passing line breaks to DDI-XML, continued
>
>
>Hi Sanda, and all the others,
>
>I grabbed out the e-mail below, and wanted to ask about the state of the 
>art concerning formatting tags. Are they available? Can anybody show me a 
>XML example how to use them?
>
>The only search result about 'formatting tags' is a report as of june-15,2002:
>http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/DDI/ORG/min6-15-02.html
>
>To provoke at bit: You might agree that the 'series information' in:
>http://www.icpsr.umich.edu:8080/DDI/SAMPLES/07728.xml
>looks terrible, and nobody reads this. Some of the tag contents should 
>rather appear as formatted texts, and might have lot of information, like 
>abstract.  is a solution, but not the best.
>
>
>Regards
>Freddy Kuhn, SIDOS
>www.sidos.ch
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Sanda Ionescu" 
>To: 
>Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 9:11 PM
>Subject: [DDI-users] Passing line breaks to DDI-XML
>
>
> > The DDI Committee has addressed the need to preserve text formatting in 
> DDI.
> > Recently it has approved the introduction of a number of formatting tags
> > within all elements that contain PCDATA.
> > At ICPSR we are now in the process of enabling these tags in a development
> > version of the DTD, which will be posted
> > on the DDI site within a few days. We will announce the posting through
> > this list, and will certainly welcome any feedback on the new tags and
> > other minor changes.
> > So please stay tuned!
> >
> > Sanda Ionescu
> > Research Associate
> > Inter-university Consortium for Political and Social Research (ICPSR)
> > 311 Maynard St.
> > Ann Arbor, MI 48104-2211
> > Phone: (734) 998-9895
> > Fax (734) 998-9889
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > DDI-users mailing list
> > DDI-users@icpsr.umich.edu
> > http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/mailman/listinfo/ddi-users
>_______________________________________________
>DDI-users mailing list
>DDI-users@icpsr.umich.edu
>http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/mailman/listinfo/ddi-users
>_______________________________________________
>DDI-users mailing list
>DDI-users@icpsr.umich.edu
>http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/mailman/listinfo/ddi-users

From ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu  Fri Apr 18 17:30:59 2003
From: ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu (Sanda Ionescu)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 12:30:59 -0400
Subject: [DDI-users] formatting tags in DDI - minor correction
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030418122316.02039ba0@icpsr.umich.edu>

 (for paragraph) is also enabled as a formatting tag in the DDI DTD.

Sanda Ionescu
Research Associate
Inter-university Consortium for Political and Social Research (ICPSR)
330 Packard St.
Ann Arbor, MI 48104
Phone: (734) 615-7890

From ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu  Fri Apr 18 18:42:00 2003
From: ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu (Elizabeth Bennett)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 13:42:00 -0400
Subject: [DDI-users] Geographic tags
References: <002c01c30505$0dcba0d0$0200a8c0@m1> <5.1.0.14.0.20030418100027.00a0e480@icpsr.umich.edu>
Message-ID: <3EA038E8.778F167B@princeton.edu>

Hello, DDI colleagues  --

Now that CPANDA is up and running, we're moving on to work on some
projects that didn't get done in time for the launch. In particular,
we'd like to build an interface that provides access by geography -- so,
for example, a user seeking data about Cincinatti, Ohio, could click
through a geographic tree to get to data sets covering that city. 

We would like to use the ,  and  tags as
the source of geographic coverage information.  is not a
problem, because all our data is from the U.S. However, I'm not sure
what to do with  to ensure adequate indexing. I see this tag
is repeatable, so one option would be:

Ohio
Cincinnati

The problem is that we can't distinguish between state, city, county,
and region in this tag. The ideal solution would be an attribute like
 but specifiable as part of . In the meantime, the
best thing I can think of is:

State of Ohio
City of Cincinnati

But this isn't truly satisfactory because not all
states/cities/counties/census regions/MSAs (or other possible geographic
subdivisions) use a consistent vocabulary. What about parishes in
Louisiana, for instance? 

Has anyone else grappled with this and come up with a workable solution? 

Thanks for your help!

--
Elizabeth Z. Bennett
Project Manager/Associate Director
Cultural Policy and the Arts National Data Archive
Princeton University Library
One Washington Road
Princeton NJ 08544-2098

phone: 609-258-7357
fax: 609-258-0441
ezb@princeton.edu

www.cpanda.org

From ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu  Fri Apr 18 20:52:32 2003
From: ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu (Mary Vardigan)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 15:52:32 -0400
Subject: [DDI-users] DDI meeting dates set
In-Reply-To: <20030416174256.96998.qmail@web21414.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20030416174256.96998.qmail@web21414.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: 

Hello, everyone.

An informal open meeting of the members of the original DDI 
Committee, the DDI Alliance Steering Committee, and all prospective 
members and other interested individuals will be held during the 
upcoming IASSIST conference in Ottawa, Ontario, on Wednesday, May 28, 
2003, 5:O0-6:30. The meeting will invite a discussion of where the 
DDI is going and what the Alliance hopes to achieve.

The first official meeting of the Alliance Expert Committee will be 
held in Ann Arbor, MI, at ICPSR headquarters on Sunday afternoon and 
all day Monday, October 12 and 13, 2003, after the ICPSR Biennial 
Meeting of Official Representatives concludes. More information about 
the meeting and about procedures for joining the Alliance will be 
available soon. Please let me know if you have any questions.

Mary

-- 

Mary Vardigan, Director, Web Resources Development
Inter-university Consortium for Political and Social Research (ICPSR)
P.O. Box 1248, Ann Arbor, MI 48106-1248
734-615-7908 (voice) 734-647-8200 (fax)

From ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu  Wed Apr 16 18:56:07 2003
From: ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu (Richard C. Rockwell)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 13:56:07 -0400
Subject: [DDI-users] Lets make DDI more user-friendly
In-Reply-To: <20030416174256.96998.qmail@web21414.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030416135518.012b0e48@mail.ropercenter.uconn.edu>

--=====================_5113625==.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Would training workshops have helped you, Jyoti?  How about examples of DDI 
documentation that may be closer to the kinds of data with which you are 
working?

At 10:42 AM 4/16/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>Hello Everyone:
>I am a doctoral student trying really hard to use DDI specifications for a 
>research project.  However, I am jumping all different hoops trying to 
>figure out the HOW TOs and what is the right software to use.
>
>There have been some folks on this listseve who have been extremely 
>helpful with their suggestions, thanks to them.  However, I think that if 
>researchers do not get clear guidelines and instructions (esp. people like 
>me who have no clue about HMT, XML, XSLT and so on) they would not bother 
>to use the DDI specifications, solely because the "learning curve IS quite 
>steep".
>
>Trying hard,
>Jyoti Savla
>Department of Child & Family Development
>University of Georgia
>
>
>
>
>
>Do you Yahoo!?
>The New 
>Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.

--------------------------------------
Richard C. ROCKWELL
Executive Director, The Roper Center &
Institute for Social Inquiry
Professor of Sociology
University of Connecticut
341 Mansfield Road, U-164
Storrs, CT 06269-1164  USA
V +1 860 486-4440
F +1 860 486-6308
Richard.Rockwell@uconn.edu
--=====================_5113625==.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

Would training workshops have helped you, Jyoti?  How about examples
of DDI documentation that may be closer to the kinds of data with which
you are working?

At 10:42 AM 4/16/2003 -0700, you wrote:

Hello Everyone:

I am a doctoral student trying really hard to use DDI specifications for
a research project.  However, I am jumping all different hoops
trying to figure out the HOW TOs and what is the right software to
use.

There have been some folks on this listseve who have been extremely
helpful with their suggestions, thanks to them.  However, I think
that if researchers do not get clear guidelines and instructions (esp.
people like me who have no clue about HMT, XML, XSLT and so on) they
would not bother to use the DDI specifications, solely because the
"learning curve IS quite steep".  

Trying hard,

Jyoti Savla

Department of Child & Family Development

University of Georgia

Do you Yahoo!?

The
New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. 

--------------------------------------

Richard C. ROCKWELL

Executive Director, The Roper Center & 

Institute for Social Inquiry

Professor of Sociology

University of Connecticut

341 Mansfield Road, U-164

Storrs, CT 06269-1164  USA

V +1 860 486-4440

F +1 860 486-6308

Richard.Rockwell@uconn.edu

--=====================_5113625==.ALT--

From ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu  Fri Apr 18 23:19:05 2003
From: ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu (Ryan Johnson)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 15:19:05 -0700
Subject: [DDI-users] Fwd: Software question
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20030418151759.01d8be30@mail.wsu.edu>

Sorry about the confusion, I thought I had sent my e-mail the last time.  I 
would appreciate any assistance I can get.

johnsor@wsu.edu

>At Washington State we are beginning a project to put 260 odd market 
>research data sets into DDI and make them available on the web.  As a part 
>of this process we are currently considering whether to use Nesstar or 
>SDA.  I would appreciate any comments on either or both products that 
>anyone would care to share.
>
>Please respond off the list.
>
>Thanks

Ryan Johnson
Social Science Reference -
Electronic Resources Librarian
Holland/New Library
Washington State University
509-335-2693
509-335-1889 FAX

From ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu  Sat Apr 19 17:22:15 2003
From: ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu (Jyoti Savla)
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 09:22:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [DDI-users] Re: Lets make DDI more user-friendly
Message-ID: <20030419162215.3603.qmail@web21405.mail.yahoo.com>

--0-1640525670-1050769335=:3464
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Dear Richard:
Thanks for responding back.  I think training workshops would have certainly helped.  DDI documentation examples are helpful, but they are helpful only after you have discovered the meaning of it yourself. Looking at web-sites such as www.cpanda.org is very inspiring too.  NESSTAR associates like Margaret and other beings on this list-serve did a great job helping me out as well.   However, being a graduate student I would go around asking advice from people, but i doubt if researchers in the field, especially professors in a research institute have that kind of time.  And then, again how many researchers really understand all the web-designing, developing languages, such as XML, HTML, XSLT and so on?   People want something more easier.  It just seems like each time someone wants to use DDI, they have to re-invent the wheel.  Comprehensiveness is one thing, and Being USER-FRIENDLY is another. I seriously do hope that the people on the DDI committee are looking at this e-mail and would consider my critique.  I think DDI is doing a great job by trying to make documentation styles more universal.  However, there are a few suggestions that they ought to consider if they want to make it available for everyone and reach their goal of universality.
   Workshops to teach how to use DDI and softwares that work in collaboration with them
   A list-serve is helpful, but a list of people and places that already use DDI would be extremely helpful.
   Step by step guidelines on the web-site that tells a person where to start from and how to reach the end-product, more like a flow-chart, would certainly be helpful too.

And finally, am i no only one who feels this way?????

Thanks,

Jyoti Savla
Department of Child & Family Development
University of Georgia
  --------------------------------------------Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 13:56:07 -0400
To: ddi-users@ICPSR.UMICH.EDU
From: "Richard C. Rockwell" 
Subject: Re: [DDI-users] Lets make DDI more user-friendly
Reply-To: ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu

--=====================_5113625==.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Would training workshops have helped you, Jyoti?  How about examples of 
DDI 
documentation that may be closer to the kinds of data with which you 
are 
working?

At 10:42 AM 4/16/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>Hello Everyone:
>I am a doctoral student trying really hard to use DDI specifications 
for a 
>research project.  However, I am jumping all different hoops trying to 
>figure out the HOW TOs and what is the right software to use.
>
>There have been some folks on this listseve who have been extremely 
>helpful with their suggestions, thanks to them.  However, I think that 
if 
>researchers do not get clear guidelines and instructions (esp. people 
like 
>me who have no clue about HMT, XML, XSLT and so on) they would not 
bother 
>to use the DDI specifications, solely because the "learning curve IS 
quite 
>steep".
>
>Trying hard,
>Jyoti Savla
>Department of Child & Family Development
>University of Georgia

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
--0-1640525670-1050769335=:3464
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Dear Richard:
Thanks for responding back.  I think training workshops would have certainly helped.  DDI documentation examples are helpful, but they are helpful only after you have discovered the meaning of it yourself. Looking at web-sites such as www.cpanda.org is very inspiring too.  NESSTAR associates like Margaret and other beings on this list-serve did a great job helping me out as well.  

However, being a graduate student I would go around asking advice from people, but i doubt if researchers in the field, especially professors in a research institute have that kind of time.  And then, again how many researchers really understand all the web-designing, developing languages, such as XML, HTML, XSLT and so on?  

People want something more easier.  It just seems like each time someone wants to use DDI, they have to re-invent the wheel.  Comprehensiveness is one thing, and Being USER-FRIENDLY is another.

I seriously do hope that the people on the DDI committee are looking at this e-mail and would consider my critique.  I think DDI is doing a great job by trying to make documentation styles more universal.  However, there are a few suggestions that they ought to consider if they want to make it available for everyone and reach their goal of universality.

Workshops to teach how to use DDI and softwares that work in collaboration with them
A list-serve is helpful, but a list of people and places that already use DDI would be extremely helpful.
Step by step guidelines on the web-site that tells a person where to start from and how to reach the end-product, more like a flow-chart, would certainly be helpful too.
And finally, am i no only one who feels this way?????
Thanks,
Jyoti Savla
Department of Child & Family Development
University of Georgia

--------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 13:56:07 -0400
To: ddi-users@ICPSR.UMICH.EDU
From: "Richard C. Rockwell" <richard@ropercenter.uconn.edu>
Subject: Re: [DDI-users] Lets make DDI more user-friendly
Reply-To: ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu

--=====================_5113625==.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Would training workshops have helped you, Jyoti?  How about examples of 
DDI 
documentation that may be closer to the kinds of data with which you 
are 
working?

At 10:42 AM 4/16/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>Hello Everyone:
>I am a doctoral student trying really hard to use DDI specifications 
for a 
>research project.  However, I am jumping all different hoops trying to 
>figure out the HOW TOs and what is the right software to use.
>
>There have been some folks on this listseve who have been extremely 
>helpful with their suggestions, thanks to them.  However, I think that 
if 
>researchers do not get clear guidelines and instructions (esp. people 
like 
>me who have no clue about HMT, XML, XSLT and so on) they would not 
bother 
>to use the DDI specifications, solely because the "learning curve IS 
quite 
>steep".
>
>Trying hard,
>Jyoti Savla
>Department of Child & Family Development
>University of Georgia

Do you Yahoo!?

The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
--0-1640525670-1050769335=:3464--

From ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu  Sat Apr 19 18:37:16 2003
From: ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu (Fredy Kuhn)
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 19:37:16 +0200
Subject: [DDI-users] Re: Lets make DDI more user-friendly
References: <20030419162215.3603.qmail@web21405.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <00d201c3069a$5a2e2650$0200a8c0@m1>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_00CB_01C306AB.1589C2F0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Jyoti, and all the others,

fully agree with you - researchers should use these standards in a =
self-explanatory way, without nessecity to deal with them on the =
technical level, and in fact, XML is only an exchange standard for =
software ...

We just jumped into the EU funded project 'Metadater', which should have =
as an outcome an application which allows researchers to create/edit DDI =
compatible research descriptions (MD-COLL, our part), which can easily =
be passed to archives (MD-PRO) that follow this standard. Although =
Metadater will deal mainly with the 'most complex surveys' =
(cross-sectional, longitudinal, etc.), it should also handle simple =
research designs.=20

I don't know how you tried to apply the DDI standard, but I found XML =
editors not very useful for authoring needs. You could try the Nesstar =
publisher v2, allowing you to create DDI compliant sheets, from scratch =
or from existing survey data, with or without publishing them to a =
Nesstar server at the end. And without the need to know a lot about =
these standards. (But still to know: it's made for the Nesstar suite. =
See www.nesstar.com )

Hope you will see more soon on www.metadater.org

Regards
Fredy Kuhn
Sidos, Switzerland
www.sidos.ch

  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Jyoti Savla=20
  To: ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu=20
  Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2003 6:22 PM
  Subject: [DDI-users] Re: Lets make DDI more user-friendly

  Dear Richard:

  Thanks for responding back.  I think training workshops would have =
certainly helped.  DDI documentation examples are helpful, but they are =
helpful only after you have discovered the meaning of it yourself. =
Looking at web-sites such as www.cpanda.org is very inspiring too.  =
NESSTAR associates like Margaret and other beings on this list-serve did =
a great job helping me out as well. =20

  However, being a graduate student I would go around asking advice from =
people, but i doubt if researchers in the field, especially professors =
in a research institute have that kind of time.  And then, again how =
many researchers really understand all the web-designing, developing =
languages, such as XML, HTML, XSLT and so on? =20

  People want something more easier.  It just seems like each time =
someone wants to use DDI, they have to re-invent the wheel.  =
Comprehensiveness is one thing, and Being USER-FRIENDLY is another.

  I seriously do hope that the people on the DDI committee are looking =
at this e-mail and would consider my critique.  I think DDI is doing a =
great job by trying to make documentation styles more universal.  =
However, there are a few suggestions that they ought to consider if they =
want to make it available for everyone and reach their goal of =
universality.
    1.. Workshops to teach how to use DDI and softwares that work in =
collaboration with them=20
    2.. A list-serve is helpful, but a list of people and places that =
already use DDI would be extremely helpful.=20
    3.. Step by step guidelines on the web-site that tells a person =
where to start from and how to reach the end-product, more like a =
flow-chart, would certainly be helpful too.
  And finally, am i no only one who feels this way?????

  Thanks,

  Jyoti Savla
  Department of Child & Family Development
  University of Georgia

  --------------------------------------------
  Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 13:56:07 -0400
  To: ddi-users@ICPSR.UMICH.EDU
  From: "Richard C. Rockwell" 
  Subject: Re: [DDI-users] Lets make DDI more user-friendly
  Reply-To: ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu

  =
--=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D_5113625=
=3D=3D.ALT
  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii"; format=3Dflowed

  Would training workshops have helped you, Jyoti?  How about examples =
of=20
  DDI=20
  documentation that may be closer to the kinds of data with which you=20
  are=20
  working?

  At 10:42 AM 4/16/2003 -0700, you wrote:
  >Hello Everyone:
  >I am a doctoral student trying really hard to use DDI specifications=20
  for a=20
  >research project.  However, I am jumping all different hoops trying =
to=20
  >figure out the HOW TOs and what is the right software to use.
  >
  >There have been some folks on this listseve who have been extremely=20
  >helpful with their suggestions, thanks to them.  However, I think =
that=20
  if=20
  >researchers do not get clear guidelines and instructions (esp. people =

  like=20
  >me who have no clue about HMT, XML, XSLT and so on) they would not=20
  bother=20
  >to use the DDI specifications, solely because the "learning curve IS=20
  quite=20
  >steep".
  >
  >Trying hard,
  >Jyoti Savla
  >Department of Child & Family Development
  >University of Georgia

-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----
  Do you Yahoo!?
  The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
------=_NextPart_000_00CB_01C306AB.1589C2F0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Jyoti, and all the =
others,

fully agree with you - researchers should use =
these=20
standards in a self-explanatory way, without nessecity to deal with them =
on the=20
technical level, and in fact, XML is only an exchange standard for =
software=20
...

We just jumped into the EU funded project=20
'Metadater', which should have as an outcome an application =
which=20
allows researchers to create/edit DDI compatible research descriptions =
(MD-COLL,=20
our part), which can easily be passed to archives (MD-PRO) that =
follow this=20
standard. Although Metadater will deal mainly with the =
'most=20
complex surveys' (cross-sectional, longitudinal, etc.), it should =
also=20
handle simple research designs. 

I don't know how you tried to apply the DDI =
standard, but=20
I found XML editors not very useful for authoring needs. You =
could try=20
the Nesstar publisher v2, allowing you to create =
DDI=20
compliant sheets, from scratch or from existing survey data, with or =
without=20
publishing them to a Nesstar server at the end. And without =
the need=20
to know a lot about these standards. (But still to know: it's made =
for=20
the Nesstar suite. See www.nesstar.com )

Hope you will see more soon on www.metadater.org

Regards
Fredy Kuhn
Sidos, Switzerland
www.sidos.ch

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From:=20
  Jyoti Savla=20

  To: ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu =

  Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2003 =
6:22=20
  PM
  Subject: [DDI-users] Re: Lets =
make DDI=20
  more user-friendly

  Dear Richard:
  Thanks for responding back.  I think training workshops =
would have=20
  certainly helped.  DDI documentation examples are helpful, =
but they=20
  are helpful only after you have discovered the meaning of it=20
  yourself. Looking at web-sites such as www.cpanda.org is very inspiring =
too. =20
  NESSTAR associates like Margaret and other beings on this list-serve =
did a=20
  great job helping me out as well.  

  However, being a graduate student I would go around asking advice =
from=20
  people, but i doubt if researchers in the field, =
especially professors in=20
  a research institute have that kind of time.  And then, =
again how=20
  many researchers really understand all the web-designing, developing=20
  languages, such as XML, HTML, XSLT and so on?  

  People want something more easier.  It just seems like each =
time=20
  someone wants to use DDI, they have to re-invent the wheel. =20
  Comprehensiveness is one thing, and Being USER-FRIENDLY is=20
  another.

  I seriously do hope that the people on the DDI committee are =
looking at=20
  this e-mail and would consider my critique.  I think DDI is doing =
a great=20
  job by trying to make documentation styles more universal.  =
However,=20
  there are a few suggestions that they ought to consider if they want =
to make=20
  it available for everyone and reach their goal of universality.

    Workshops to teach how to use DDI and softwares that work in=20
    collaboration with them=20

A list-serve is helpful, but a list of people and places that =
already=20
    use DDI would be extremely helpful.=20

Step by step guidelines on the web-site that tells a person =
where to=20
    start from and how to reach the end-product, more like a flow-chart, =
would=20
    certainly be helpful too.
  And finally, am i no only one who feels this way?????
  Thanks,
  Jyoti Savla
Department of Child & Family =
Development
University=20
  of Georgia

  --------------------------------------------
  Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 13:56:07 -0400
To: ddi-users@ICPSR.UMICH.EDU
From: "Richard =
C.=20
  Rockwell" <richard@ropercenter.uconn.edu>
Subject: =
Re:=20
  [DDI-users] Lets make DDI more user-friendly
Reply-To: ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu

--=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D_5113625=3D=3D.ALT
=
Content-Type:=20
  text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii"; format=3Dflowed

Would =
training workshops=20
  have helped you, Jyoti?  How about examples of 
DDI =

documentation=20
  that may be closer to the kinds of data with which you 
are=20

working?

At 10:42 AM 4/16/2003 -0700, you =
wrote:
>Hello=20
  Everyone:
>I am a doctoral student trying really hard to use DDI =

  specifications 
for a 
>research project.  However, I am =
jumping=20
  all different hoops trying to 
>figure out the HOW TOs and what =
is the=20
  right software to use.
>
>There have been some folks on =
this=20
  listseve who have been extremely 
>helpful with their =
suggestions,=20
  thanks to them.  However, I think that 
if 
>researchers =
do not=20
  get clear guidelines and instructions (esp. people 
like 
>me =
who=20
  have no clue about HMT, XML, XSLT and so on) they would not 
bother =

>to use the DDI specifications, solely because the "learning =
curve IS=20

quite 
>steep".
>
>Trying hard,
>Jyoti=20
  Savla
>Department of Child & Family =
Development
>University of=20
  Georgia

  Do you Yahoo!?
T=
he New=20
  Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.

------=_NextPart_000_00CB_01C306AB.1589C2F0--

From ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu  Mon Apr 21 14:11:51 2003
From: ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu (Richard C. Rockwell)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 09:11:51 -0400
Subject: [DDI-users] Re: Lets make DDI more user-friendly
In-Reply-To: <20030419162215.3603.qmail@web21405.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030421090734.012e26c8@mail.ropercenter.uconn.edu>

Everybody has offered good ideas.  Until we can get training workshops up 
and running (or an on-demand online tutorial up and running), it seems the 
best advice is to (a) avoid XML editors, which are not customized to the 
DDI and (b) use one of the publishing tools that understands the DDI, such 
as NESSTAR.  I don't think that one is permanently bound into NESSTAR if 
one uses the NESSTAR publishing tool.  There are almost certainly similar 
publishing tools; we have found it possible to move from SPSS Portable 
files to SDA-compatible files, and SDA is working on or is already offering 
DDI compatibility.

--------------------------------------
Richard C. ROCKWELL
Executive Director, The Roper Center &
Institute for Social Inquiry
Professor of Sociology
University of Connecticut
341 Mansfield Road, U-164
Storrs, CT 06269-1164  USA
V +1 860 486-4440
F +1 860 486-6308
Richard.Rockwell@uconn.edu

From ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu  Mon Apr 21 22:42:37 2003
From: ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu (Michelle Edwards)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 17:42:37 -0400
Subject: [DDI-users] Re: Lets make DDI more user-friendly
References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030421090734.012e26c8@mail.ropercenter.uconn.edu>
Message-ID: <004b01c3084e$ed6f1fe0$2ed36618@CR38656A>

Good day all!

I have to admit that when we started out creating our DDI codebooks - I was
about as lost as anyone could be...  I tried the XML editors and found them
very tedious and so on..  What we did was start out by developing a template
of our codebook - so deciding what tags we thought would be most useful for
our users.  Since then we have expanded on the number of tags.  Our shop is
a SAS shop - so my goal was to use what knowledge and skills were at my
disposal and stick with SAS.  I've had some success with this and continue
to develop these tools.

I think there are so many different ways of developing DDI codebooks that
each of us has to examine the skills, time and our software preferences and
based on these decide which avenue is best.  Making DDI friendlier will
ultimately depend on these choices.  Training and on-line tutorials are
great - but will they not restrict new users to learn one method or
software?  Maybe this is good - I'm not sure???  Tutorials on the background
of DDI - maybe the structure of XML - how do you get from XML to a viewable
document would be the way to go - including the different methods people use
(Nesstar, XSL, SAS, etc...) would be helpful.  Personally I work best from
examples - so plenty of examples would be very helpful.

My two cents worth....

Michelle

 ___________________________________
A. Michelle Edwards, Ph.D.
Academic Services, CCS
Vehicle Services Bldg, University of Guelph
Guelph, Ontario
 N1G 2W1

PH: (519) 824-4120 Ext. 54539
FAX: (519) 767-1620
Email: edwardsm@uoguelph.ca
___________________________________

From ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu  Tue Apr 22 11:31:44 2003
From: ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu (Reto Hadorn)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 12:31:44 +0200
Subject: [DDI-users] DDIing (was: Lets make DDI more user-friendly)
In-Reply-To: <004b01c3084e$ed6f1fe0$2ed36618@CR38656A>
References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030421090734.012e26c8@mail.ropercenter.uconn.edu>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20030422115447.00bc1dd0@webmail.unine.ch>

The DDI does not have to be any more user friendly than any other FORMAT. 
User friendliness is to be looked for on the level or the applications 
generating DDI-XML. The Nesstar Publisher is certainly a good example of 
such applications. There are other around. There could be some Webb address 
with a short presentation of those tools and links ot the purveyors.

What makes it difficult to DDI supporters is that
- we are so software independent with that XML-format that we have just a 
few applications able to use it in a sensible manner; actually, we are tied 
to those few applications (Nesstar Publisher and cousins).
- the publicity for and the documentation of the existing tools is perhaps 
still unsufficient
- there is information around about "How I made it" (a lot of presentations 
at IASSIST conferences) but not available on line in a pedagogical form 
really usable for beginners.

You have to think of a workflow for entering and managing metadata, which 
is appropriate to your situation, and then choose (or make) the tools, 
define the rules. At SIDOS we set on relational databases for metadata 
capture and management. User-friendliness depends then on the design of 
forms and organisation of the entry process. One the information 
structured, the production of DDI-XML files can use several different ways:
- Producing the whole file from within the databases,
- Producing basic DDI files extracting SPSS info with Nesstar Publisher, 
making a program, wich picks the appropriate information in the databases 
holding the metadata.
- etc.

Most of the services, which made the initial online publications using 
DDI-XML already had databases for their metadata at the time they made 
those publications. Sometimes, adaptations had to be made, and 
complementary work was sometimes made with rather crude means. But 
something already was there. It cannot be as easy for those starting from 
scratch.

So, an additional ressource would be an online documentation of the 
work-flow and tools used at several places, wich already did publish 
successfully.
- Structure of metadata as available
- Instruments as available
- Extended work-flow for publication with DDI
- Complementary tools used.
The work-flow is as important as the tools.

So, we could leave the DDI be what it is, a format.

Regards

Reto Hadorn

At 21.04.2003, you wrote:
>Good day all!
>
>I have to admit that when we started out creating our DDI codebooks - I was
>about as lost as anyone could be...  I tried the XML editors and found them
>very tedious and so on..  What we did was start out by developing a template
>of our codebook - so deciding what tags we thought would be most useful for
>our users.  Since then we have expanded on the number of tags.  Our shop is
>a SAS shop - so my goal was to use what knowledge and skills were at my
>disposal and stick with SAS.  I've had some success with this and continue
>to develop these tools.
>
>I think there are so many different ways of developing DDI codebooks that
>each of us has to examine the skills, time and our software preferences and
>based on these decide which avenue is best.  Making DDI friendlier will
>ultimately depend on these choices.  Training and on-line tutorials are
>great - but will they not restrict new users to learn one method or
>software?  Maybe this is good - I'm not sure???  Tutorials on the background
>of DDI - maybe the structure of XML - how do you get from XML to a viewable
>document would be the way to go - including the different methods people use
>(Nesstar, XSL, SAS, etc...) would be helpful.  Personally I work best from
>examples - so plenty of examples would be very helpful.
>
>My two cents worth....
>
>Michelle
>
>  ___________________________________
>A. Michelle Edwards, Ph.D.
>Academic Services, CCS
>Vehicle Services Bldg, University of Guelph
>Guelph, Ontario
>  N1G 2W1
>
>PH: (519) 824-4120 Ext. 54539
>FAX: (519) 767-1620
>Email: edwardsm@uoguelph.ca
>___________________________________
>
>_______________________________________________
>DDI-users mailing list
>DDI-users@icpsr.umich.edu
>http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/mailman/listinfo/ddi-users

From ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu  Tue Apr 22 12:01:01 2003
From: ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu (Simon Musgrave)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 12:01:01 +0100
Subject: [DDI-users] Re: Lets make DDI more user-friendly
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030421090734.012e26c8@mail.ropercenter.uconn.e
 du>
References: <20030419162215.3603.qmail@web21405.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030422115245.01d44c90@exchange2.essex.ac.uk>

Dear all

I can confirm that it is not essential to use Nesstar server and clients to 
benefit from the Nesstar publisher. The publisher can be used independently 
to produce just the metadata and the data can also be exported in a wide 
variety of formats. The only reference back to the Nesstar Publisher will 
be a field in the document description that says how the DDI files was 
created. Of course there may be some idiosyncrasies in our use of the DDI, 
but hopefully as we all work together in this venture we will gain a better 
understanding of the best use of all the fields.

Best

Simon

At 09:11 21/04/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>Everybody has offered good ideas.  Until we can get training workshops up 
>and running (or an on-demand online tutorial up and running), it seems the 
>best advice is to (a) avoid XML editors, which are not customized to the 
>DDI and (b) use one of the publishing tools that understands the DDI, such 
>as NESSTAR.  I don't think that one is permanently bound into NESSTAR if 
>one uses the NESSTAR publishing tool.  There are almost certainly similar 
>publishing tools; we have found it possible to move from SPSS Portable 
>files to SDA-compatible files, and SDA is working on or is already 
>offering DDI compatibility.
>
>--------------------------------------
>Richard C. ROCKWELL
>Executive Director, The Roper Center &
>Institute for Social Inquiry
>Professor of Sociology
>University of Connecticut
>341 Mansfield Road, U-164
>Storrs, CT 06269-1164  USA
>V +1 860 486-4440
>F +1 860 486-6308
>Richard.Rockwell@uconn.edu
>
>_______________________________________________
>DDI-users mailing list
>DDI-users@icpsr.umich.edu
>http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/mailman/listinfo/ddi-users

Simon Musgrave

Nesstar
John Tabor House
Wivenhoe Park
Colchester CO4 3Q

Tel: +44 1206 872321
Fax: +44 1206 873516
Mobile: +44 7940 783875
Web: www.nesstar.com

From ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu  Tue Apr 22 14:54:49 2003
From: ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu (Elizabeth Bennett)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 09:54:49 -0400
Subject: [DDI-users] conditions statements
Message-ID: <3EA549A9.B79F926C@princeton.edu>

Hi, all --

Can someone tell me why the  tag in the Data Access section
of the markup is Not Repeatable? CPANDA uses a standard conditions
statement, but I have a group of datasets for which the depositor has
set additional conditions. I would prefer to treat these as two
different things and use the source= attribute to distinguish them --
indeed, this seems like good practice and consistent with the DDI's
approach elsewhere. Is there some good reason why this tag cannot be
repeated? 

Thanks --

Elizabeth Z. Bennett
Project Manager/Associate Director
Cultural Policy and the Arts National Data Archive
Princeton University Library
One Washington Road
Princeton NJ 08544-2098

phone: 609-258-7357
fax: 609-258-0441
ezb@princeton.edu

www.cpanda.org

From ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu  Tue Apr 22 18:07:17 2003
From: ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu (Sanda Ionescu)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 13:07:17 -0400
Subject: [DDI-users] XML editors
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030422123816.00ab5a40@icpsr.umich.edu>

Hi.
I am a great fan of the Nesstar Publisher - have used it a lot and I think 
it is by far the best tool available for producing DDI documents.
Still, my view is that XML editors should not be dismissed too easily - 
they are also in different ways perhaps, invaluable tools. They allow
"direct contact" with the DDI, "force" you to become familiar with it, 
guide you through its usage, and most importantly allow you to validate 
your documents and correct errors if any are found.
Even a tool like the Publisher is limited in the number of elements and 
especially attributes that one can use and therefore loses some of the DDI 
potential.
Ideally, I think, the selection of tags, as well as our choice of 
conversion tools and applications should be governed by the goals we try to 
achieve through using the DDI, rather than make our goals dependent on the 
ease of using certain pieces of software.
What I'm trying to say, I guess, is that knowing the "big picture" allows 
one to make more informed decisions, and that increases efficiency in the 
long run.

Elizabeth,
No, I'm not aware of any particular reason that  cannot be 
repeated.
If you really think that it should be changed, I think you should present a 
proposal to this effect to the DDI Alliance, showing the reasons you want 
it to be repeatable.

Sanda Ionescu
Research Associate
Inter-university Consortium for Political and Social Research (ICPSR)
330 Packard St.
Ann Arbor, MI 48104
Phone: (734) 615-7890

From ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu  Wed Apr 23 12:46:48 2003
From: ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu (Matthew Richardson)
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 07:46:48 -0400
Subject: [DDI-users] Generic Codebook Stylesheet
Message-ID: <2147483647.1051084008@lime.icpsr.umich.edu>

A DDI user recently contacted me stating that she'd found some problems 
with the generic codebook stylesheet, specifically in the display of 
variable groups. I've looked into the matter and made a number of 
corrections:

- variables under variable groups now link properly to their variables
- variable groups within variable groups now link properly
- CSS is now embedded in the header of the document instead of referencing 
an external document
- error in display of derivation of a variable has been corrected
- invalid html for position of variable has been corrected

If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact me.

Matthew A. Richardson
Inter-university Consortium for Political and Social Research
Phone: 734.615.7901
Email: matvey@umich.edu
"Everything tires with time, and starts to seek some opposition,
to save it from itself." --Clive Barker, The Hellbound Heart

From ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu  Thu Apr 24 20:47:33 2003
From: ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu (Mary Vardigan)
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 15:47:33 -0400
Subject: [DDI-users] DDIing (was: Lets make DDI more user-friendly)
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20030422115447.00bc1dd0@webmail.unine.ch>
References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030421090734.012e26c8@mail.ropercenter.uconn.edu>
 <5.0.2.1.2.20030422115447.00bc1dd0@webmail.unine.ch>
Message-ID: 

The recent discussion on making the DDI more user-friendly was really 
instructive and happened at a propitious time because we are just now 
in the process of modifying the DDI Web site. Thanks for raising the 
issue, Jyoti.

Here are four ways the site might become more useful:

(1) Add a "Getting Started With DDI" section: This would include some 
step-by-step instructions and would cover different scenarios, 
depending on whether the user has legacy documentation or is starting 
from scratch, what the desired outputs are, how the materials to be 
marked up are formatted, etc.

(2) Augment the existing list of projects that currently use DDI. In 
addition to being good publicity for the DDI, the list may also 
promote networking within the DDI community and help people who are 
exploring the DDI to get started in actually using it.

(3) Related to the above list of DDI implementers, add a DDI Details 
page: For each of the listed DDI projects, we currently include only 
a link to the project itself. We would like to add another link 
pointing to a DDI Details page, which describes in more detail how 
the project has used the DDI. This link may point to a page on the 
main DDI site or on the project site, and could serve to publicize 
the project's connection to DDI, or as a guide to future DDI 
implementers.

(4) Make the "DDI Tools" section more prominent and more robust: This 
section should include software tools that people have used to edit, 
manipulate, and view DDI. This would make it easier for first-time 
implementers to get started using the DDI.

Ways you can help:

* Re #2 above, the current list of DDI users is incomplete. Please 
look over the list at:
http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/DDI/ORG/index2.html#a04. If you are using 
DDI and your organization isn't on the list or if you know of other 
DDI implementers not represented here, please get back to me with the 
URL and other pertinent information.

* Re #3, if your organization is already on the list, please get back 
to me with a DDI-Details page described above.

* Re #4, if your organization has any DDI software 
tools/scripts/stylesheets that you would like to share with the DDI 
community and that are not currently listed at 
http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/DDI/INFO/index.html#02.5, please get in 
touch.

Let me know if you have other ideas for the site, and thanks so much 
for your help.

Regards,
Mary

>The DDI does not have to be any more user friendly than any other 
>FORMAT. User friendliness is to be looked for on the level or the 
>applications generating DDI-XML. The Nesstar Publisher is certainly 
>a good example of such applications. There are other around. There 
>could be some Webb address with a short presentation of those tools 
>and links ot the purveyors.
>
>What makes it difficult to DDI supporters is that
>- we are so software independent with that XML-format that we have 
>just a few applications able to use it in a sensible manner; 
>actually, we are tied to those few applications (Nesstar Publisher 
>and cousins).
>- the publicity for and the documentation of the existing tools is 
>perhaps still unsufficient
>- there is information around about "How I made it" (a lot of 
>presentations at IASSIST conferences) but not available on line in a 
>pedagogical form really usable for beginners.
>
>You have to think of a workflow for entering and managing metadata, 
>which is appropriate to your situation, and then choose (or make) 
>the tools, define the rules. At SIDOS we set on relational databases 
>for metadata capture and management. User-friendliness depends then 
>on the design of forms and organisation of the entry process. One 
>the information structured, the production of DDI-XML files can use 
>several different ways:
>- Producing the whole file from within the databases,
>- Producing basic DDI files extracting SPSS info with Nesstar 
>Publisher, making a program, wich picks the appropriate information 
>in the databases holding the metadata.
>- etc.
>
>Most of the services, which made the initial online publications 
>using DDI-XML already had databases for their metadata at the time 
>they made those publications. Sometimes, adaptations had to be made, 
>and complementary work was sometimes made with rather crude means. 
>But something already was there. It cannot be as easy for those 
>starting from scratch.
>
>So, an additional ressource would be an online documentation of the 
>work-flow and tools used at several places, wich already did publish 
>successfully.
>- Structure of metadata as available
>- Instruments as available
>- Extended work-flow for publication with DDI
>- Complementary tools used.
>The work-flow is as important as the tools.
>
>So, we could leave the DDI be what it is, a format.
>
>Regards
>
>Reto Hadorn
>
>
>
>
>
>
>At 21.04.2003, you wrote:
>>Good day all!
>>
>>I have to admit that when we started out creating our DDI codebooks - I was
>>about as lost as anyone could be...  I tried the XML editors and found them
>>very tedious and so on..  What we did was start out by developing a template
>>of our codebook - so deciding what tags we thought would be most useful for
>>our users.  Since then we have expanded on the number of tags.  Our shop is
>>a SAS shop - so my goal was to use what knowledge and skills were at my
>>disposal and stick with SAS.  I've had some success with this and continue
>>to develop these tools.
>>
>>I think there are so many different ways of developing DDI codebooks that
>>each of us has to examine the skills, time and our software preferences and
>>based on these decide which avenue is best.  Making DDI friendlier will
>>ultimately depend on these choices.  Training and on-line tutorials are
>>great - but will they not restrict new users to learn one method or
>>software?  Maybe this is good - I'm not sure???  Tutorials on the background
>>of DDI - maybe the structure of XML - how do you get from XML to a viewable
>>document would be the way to go - including the different methods people use
>>(Nesstar, XSL, SAS, etc...) would be helpful.  Personally I work best from
>>examples - so plenty of examples would be very helpful.
>>
>>My two cents worth....
>>
>>Michelle
>>
>>  ___________________________________
>>A. Michelle Edwards, Ph.D.
>>Academic Services, CCS
>>Vehicle Services Bldg, University of Guelph
>>Guelph, Ontario
>>  N1G 2W1
>>
>>PH: (519) 824-4120 Ext. 54539
>>FAX: (519) 767-1620
>>Email: edwardsm@uoguelph.ca
>>___________________________________
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>DDI-users mailing list
>>DDI-users@icpsr.umich.edu
>>http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/mailman/listinfo/ddi-users
>
>_______________________________________________
>DDI-users mailing list
>DDI-users@icpsr.umich.edu
>http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/mailman/listinfo/ddi-users

-- 

Mary Vardigan, Director, Web Resources Development
Inter-university Consortium for Political and Social Research (ICPSR)
P.O. Box 1248, Ann Arbor, MI 48106-1248
734-615-7908 (voice) 734-647-8200 (fax)

From ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu  Fri Apr 25 17:18:41 2003
From: ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu (Jyoti Savla)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 09:18:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [DDI-users] Re: DDI-users digest, Vol 1 #57 - 1 msg
In-Reply-To: <200304251601.h3PG15A08720@icpsr.umich.edu>
Message-ID: <20030425161841.26024.qmail@web21403.mail.yahoo.com>

--0-435450080-1051287521=:23022
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Thank You, Mary, for sharing your thoughts about making DDI more accessible to all.  Let's hope that all the people out there who are currently using DDI for their projects will share their experiences and material (tools, scripts, softwares, stylesheets, etc.) that might be useful to others. If there is any other way that I could help out, please do feel free to let me know. Much thanks,Jyoti "Tina" SavlaDoctoral StudentDepartment of Child & Family DevelopmentUniversity of Georgia

ddi-users-request@icpsr.umich.edu wrote:Send DDI-users mailing list submissions to
ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/mailman/listinfo/ddi-users
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
ddi-users-request@icpsr.umich.edu

You can reach the person managing the list at
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of DDI-users digest..."

Today's Topics:

1. Re: DDIing (was: Lets make DDI more user-friendly) (Mary Vardigan)

--__--__--

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 15:47:33 -0400
To: ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu
From: Mary Vardigan 
Subject: Re: [DDI-users] DDIing (was: Lets make DDI more user-friendly)
Reply-To: ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu

The recent discussion on making the DDI more user-friendly was really 
instructive and happened at a propitious time because we are just now 
in the process of modifying the DDI Web site. Thanks for raising the 
issue, Jyoti.

Here are four ways the site might become more useful:

(1) Add a "Getting Started With DDI" section: This would include some 
step-by-step instructions and would cover different scenarios, 
depending on whether the user has legacy documentation or is starting 
from scratch, what the desired outputs are, how the materials to be 
marked up are formatted, etc.

(2) Augment the existing list of projects that currently use DDI. In 
addition to being good publicity for the DDI, the list may also 
promote networking within the DDI community and help people who are 
exploring the DDI to get started in actually using it.

(3) Related to the above list of DDI implementers, add a DDI Details 
page: For each of the listed DDI projects, we currently include only 
a link to the project itself. We would like to add another link 
pointing to a DDI Details page, which describes in more detail how 
the project has used the DDI. This link may point to a page on the 
main DDI site or on the project site, and could serve to publicize 
the project's connection to DDI, or as a guide to future DDI 
implementers.

(4) Make the "DDI Tools" section more prominent and more robust: This 
section should include software tools that people have used to edit, 
manipulate, and view DDI. This would make it easier for first-time 
implementers to get started using the DDI.

Ways you can help:

* Re #2 above, the current list of DDI users is incomplete. Please 
look over the list at:
http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/DDI/ORG/index2.html#a04. If you are using 
DDI and your organization isn't on the list or if you know of other 
DDI implementers not represented here, please get back to me with the 
URL and other pertinent information.

* Re #3, if your organization is already on the list, please get back 
to me with a DDI-Details page described above.

* Re #4, if your organization has any DDI software 
tools/scripts/stylesheets that you would like to share with the DDI 
community and that are not currently listed at 
http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/DDI/INFO/index.html#02.5, please get in 
touch.

Let me know if you have other ideas for the site, and thanks so much 
for your help.

Regards,
Mary

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
--0-435450080-1051287521=:23022
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Thank You, Mary, for sharing your thoughts about making DDI more accessible to all. 

Let's hope that all the people out there who are currently using DDI for their projects will share their experiences and material (tools, scripts, softwares, stylesheets, etc.) that might be useful to others.

If there is any other way that I could help out, please do feel free to let me know.

Much thanks,
Jyoti "Tina" Savla
Doctoral Student
Department of Child & Family Development
University of Georgia

ddi-users-request@icpsr.umich.edu wrote:
Send DDI-users mailing list submissions to
ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/mailman/listinfo/ddi-users
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
ddi-users-request@icpsr.umich.edu

You can reach the person managing the list at
ddi-users-admin@icpsr.umich.edu

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of DDI-users digest..."

Today's Topics:

1. Re: DDIing (was: Lets make DDI more user-friendly) (Mary Vardigan)

--__--__--

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 15:47:33 -0400
To: ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu
From: Mary Vardigan 
Subject: Re: [DDI-users] DDIing (was: Lets make DDI more user-friendly)
Reply-To: ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu

The recent discussion on making the DDI more user-friendly was really 
instructive and happened at a propitious time because we are just now 
in the process of modifying the DDI Web site. Thanks for raising the 
issue, Jyoti.

Here are four ways the site might become more useful:

(1) Add a "Getting Started With DDI" section: This would include some 
step-by-step instructions and would cover different scenarios, 
depending on whether the user has legacy documentation or is starting 
from scratch, what the desired outputs are, how the materials to be 
marked up are formatted, etc.

(2) Augment the existing list of projects that currently use DDI. In 
addition to being good publicity for the DDI, the list may also 
promote networking within the DDI community and help people who are 
exploring the DDI to get started in actually using it.

(3) Related to the above list of DDI implementers, add a DDI Details 
page: For each of the listed DDI projects, we currently include only 
a link to the project itself. We would like to add another link 
pointing to a DDI Details page, which describes in more detail how 
the project has used the DDI. This link may point to a page on the 
main DDI site or on the project site, and could serve to publicize 
the project's connection to DDI, or as a guide to future DDI 
implementers.

(4) Make the "DDI Tools" section more prominent and more robust: This 
section should include software tools that people have used to edit, 
manipulate, and view DDI. This would make it easier for first-time 
implementers to get started using the DDI.

Ways you can help:

* Re #2 above, the current list of DDI users is incomplete. Please 
look over the list at:
http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/DDI/ORG/index2.html#a04. If you are using 
DDI and your organization isn't on the list or if you know of other 
DDI implementers not represented here, please get back to me with the 
URL and other pertinent information.

* Re #3, if your organization is already on the list, please get back 
to me with a DDI-Details page described above.

* Re #4, if your organization has any DDI software 
tools/scripts/stylesheets that you would like to share with the DDI 
community and that are not currently listed at 
http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/DDI/INFO/index.html#02.5, please get in 
touch.

Let me know if you have other ideas for the site, and thanks so much 
for your help.

Regards,
Mary

Do you Yahoo!?

The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
--0-435450080-1051287521=:23022--

From ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu  Fri Apr 25 17:33:48 2003
From: ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu (Mary Vardigan)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 12:33:48 -0400
Subject: [DDI-users] Re: DDI-users digest, Vol 1 #57 - 1 msg
In-Reply-To: <20030425161841.26024.qmail@web21403.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20030425161841.26024.qmail@web21403.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: 

--============_-1160834064==_ma============
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

Hi, Jyota and others. Another important thing to share, which I 
neglected to mention earlier, is citations (with links to full text 
or the text itself, when available) to articles you have written 
related to the DDI. This is a great way to raise the visibility of 
the effort. We hope to revise the publications page of the site in 
coming days, so please do forward citations.

Thanks again,
Mary

>Thank You, Mary, for sharing your thoughts about making DDI more 
>accessible to all.
>
>Let's hope that all the people out there who are currently using DDI 
>for their projects will share their experiences and material (tools, 
>scripts, softwares, stylesheets, etc.) that might be useful to 
>others.
>
>If there is any other way that I could help out, please do feel free 
>to let me know.
>
>Much thanks,
>Jyoti "Tina" Savla
>Doctoral Student
>Department of Child & Family Development
>University of Georgia
>
>ddi-users-request@icpsr.umich.edu wrote:
>
>Send DDI-users mailing list submissions to
>ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu
>
>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/mailman/listinfo/ddi-users
>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>ddi-users-request@icpsr.umich.edu
>
>You can reach the person managing the list at
>ddi-users-admin@icpsr.umich.edu
>
>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>than "Re: Contents of DDI-users digest..."
>
>
>Today's Topics:
>
>1. Re: DDIing (was: Lets make DDI more user-friendly) (Mary Vardigan)
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 15:47:33 -0400
>To: ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu
>From: Mary Vardigan
>Subject: Re: [DDI-users] DDIing (was: Lets make DDI more user-friendly)
>Reply-To: ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu
>
>The recent discussion on making the DDI more user-friendly was really
>instructive and happened at a propitious time because we are just now
>in the process of modifying the DDI Web site. Thanks for raising the
>issue, Jyoti.
>
>Here are four ways the site might become more useful:
>
>(1) Add a "Getting Started With DDI" section: This would include some
>step-by-step instructions and would cover different scenarios,
>depending on whether the user has legacy documentation or is starting
>from scratch, what the desired outputs are, how the materials to be
>marked up are formatted, etc.
>
>(2) Augment the existing list of projects that currently use DDI. In
>addition to being good publicity for the DDI, the list may also
>promote networking within the DDI community and help people who are
>exploring the DDI to get started in actually using it.
>
>(3) Related to the above list of DDI implementers, add a DDI Details
>page: For each of the listed DDI projects, we currently include only
>a link to the project itself. We would like to add another link
>pointing to a DDI Details page, which describes in more detail how
>the project has used the DDI. This link may point to a page on the
>main DDI site or on the project site, and could serve to publicize
>the project's connection to DDI, or as a guide to future DDI
>implementers.
>
>(4) Make the "DDI Tools" section more prominent and more robust: This
>section should include software tools that people have used to edit,
>manipulate, and view DDI. This would make it easier for first-time
>implementers to get started using the DDI.
>
>Ways you can help:
>
>* Re #2 above, the current list of DDI users is incomplete. Please
>look over the list at:
>http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/DDI/ORG/index2.html#a04. If you are using
>DDI and your organization isn't on the list or if you know of other
>DDI implementers not represented here, please get back to me with the
>URL and other pertinent information.
>
>* Re #3, if your organization is already on the list, please get back
>to me with a DDI-Details page described above.
>
>* Re #4, if your organization has any DDI software
>tools/scripts/stylesheets that you would like to share with the DDI
>community and that are not currently listed at
>http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/DDI/INFO/index.html#02.5, please get in
>touch.
>
>Let me know if you have other ideas for the site, and thanks so much
>for your help.
>
>Regards,
>Mary
>
>
>
>Do you Yahoo!?
>The 
>New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.

-- 

Mary Vardigan, Director, Web Resources Development
Inter-university Consortium for Political and Social Research (ICPSR)
P.O. Box 1248, Ann Arbor, MI 48106-1248
734-615-7908 (voice) 734-647-8200 (fax)

--============_-1160834064==_ma============
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

[DDI-users] Re: DDI-users digest, Vol 1 #57 - 1
msg
Hi, Jyota and others. Another important thing to share, which I
neglected to mention earlier, is citations (with links to full text or
the text itself, when available) to articles you have written related
to the DDI. This is a great way to raise the visibility of the effort.
We hope to revise the publications page of the site in coming days, so
please do forward citations.

Thanks again,
Mary

Thank You, Mary, for sharing your
thoughts about making DDI more accessible to all.

Let's hope that all the people out there
who are currently using DDI for their projects will share their
experiences and material (tools, scripts, softwares, stylesheets,
etc.) that might be useful to others.

If there is any other way that I could
help out, please do feel free to let me know.

Much thanks,
Jyoti "Tina" Savla
Doctoral
Student
Department of Child
& Family Development
University of
Georgia

ddi-users-request@icpsr.umich.edu wrote:

Send DDI-users mailing list submissions to

ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit

http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/mailman/listinfo/ddi-users

or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to

ddi-users-request@icpsr.umich.edu

You can reach the person managing the list at

ddi-users-admin@icpsr.umich.edu

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
specific

than "Re: Contents of DDI-users digest..."

Today's Topics:

1. Re: DDIing (was: Lets make DDI more user-friendly) (Mary
Vardigan)

--__--__--

Message: 1

Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 15:47:33 -0400

To: ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu

From: Mary Vardigan

Subject: Re: [DDI-users] DDIing (was: Lets make DDI more
user-friendly)

Reply-To: ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu

The recent discussion on making the DDI more user-friendly was
really

instructive and happened at a propitious time because we are just
now

in the process of modifying the DDI Web site. Thanks for raising
the

issue, Jyoti.

Here are four ways the site might become more useful:

(1) Add a "Getting Started With DDI" section: This would
include some

step-by-step instructions and would cover different scenarios,

depending on whether the user has legacy documentation or is
starting

from scratch, what the desired outputs are, how the materials to
be

marked up are formatted, etc.

(2) Augment the existing list of projects that currently use DDI.
In

addition to being good publicity for the DDI, the list may also

promote networking within the DDI community and help people who
are

exploring the DDI to get started in actually using it.

(3) Related to the above list of DDI implementers, add a DDI
Details

page: For each of the listed DDI projects, we currently include
only

a link to the project itself. We would like to add another link

pointing to a DDI Details page, which describes in more detail how

the project has used the DDI. This link may point to a page on the

main DDI site or on the project site, and could serve to publicize

the project's connection to DDI, or as a guide to future DDI

implementers.

(4) Make the "DDI Tools" section more prominent and more
robust: This

section should include software tools that people have used to
edit,

manipulate, and view DDI. This would make it easier for first-time

implementers to get started using the DDI.

Ways you can help:

* Re #2 above, the current list of DDI users is incomplete. Please

look over the list at:

http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/DDI/ORG/index2.html#a04. If you are
using

DDI and your organization isn't on the list or if you know of
other

DDI implementers not represented here, please get back to me with
the

URL and other pertinent information.

* Re #3, if your organization is already on the list, please get
back

to me with a DDI-Details page described above.

* Re #4, if your organization has any DDI software

tools/scripts/stylesheets that you would like to share with the
DDI

community and that are not currently listed at

http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/DDI/INFO/index.html#02.5, please get
in
touch.

Let me know if you have other ideas for the site, and thanks so
much

for your help.

Regards,

Mary

Do you Yahoo!?

The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.

-- 

Mary Vardigan, Director, Web Resources Development

Inter-university Consortium for Political and Social Research
(ICPSR)

P.O. Box 1248, Ann Arbor, MI 48106-1248

734-615-7908 (voice) 734-647-8200 (fax)

--============_-1160834064==_ma============--

From ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu  Mon Apr 28 18:47:43 2003
From: ddi-users@icpsr.umich.edu (Daniel Lee)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 13:47:43 -0400
Subject: [DDI-users] A green horn here needs guidance
Message-ID: <0C0A6267E756DF42BBB2294B47CDF91D1BB7DE@navserver.navltd.com>

All,

I am completely new to the world of the DDI and social science data, but =
I have been actively studying this area for about four months now.  I am =
having trouble putting anything into practice, however, and I was hoping =
someone in this group might provide some guidance.

(That person might even tell me that the DDI isn't the right choice and =
that's ok too.)

Here's my scenario:

I work for a small consulting firm that specializes in public opinion =
polling/market research.  I see the tremendous benefit of the DDI for us =
in terms of organizing/analyzing our data and even helping us to publish =
the frequencies from our surveys in the future.  I am sold on the idea =
that the DDI is good.

Right now I have two collections of files that I would like to =
integrate:

1. RTF docs from the field house that detail the questions asked during =
the survey (exported from Info Zero Un's Interviewer CATI software); and
2. SPSS portable data files of the responses from the surveys.

Since the text of the actual question is limited to 255 characters in =
SPSS, using the data file only isn't an option. We'd like to be able to =
search on the question asked in past surveys to maintain data integrity =
over time.

Can anyone suggest a method for combining these two file types into one =
DDI compliant XML file?

I have been experimenting with the various ways to search, browse, =
display, and print fake DDI compliant data, but I haven't yet been able =
to figure out a way to streamline the integration of these two file =
types.

Any suggestions?

Daniel P. Lee, MLIS
Research Librarian
Navigator Limited
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Toronto, ON  M5E 1C5

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